Knee-Mail: Dear Herod

From:    Kent Hovind
Sent:     April 28, 2008
To:    Herod
Subject:    Do you fear God?
First read:    Matthew 3:1-12; 14:1-12; Mark 6:14-28

Matthew 3:1-12  “In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea,  And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.  And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leather girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.  Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region round about Jordan,  And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:  And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 14:1-12  “At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,  And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do show forth themselves in him.  For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife.  For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.  And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.  But when Herod’s birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.  Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.  And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist’s head in a charger.  And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath’s sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.  And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.  And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother.  And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus.”

Mark 6:14-28  “And king Herod heard of him; (for his name was spread abroad:) and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do show forth themselves in him.  Others said, That it is Elijah. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets.  But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.   For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife: for he had married her.  For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother’s wife.  Therefore Herodias had a quarrel against him, and would have killed him; but she could not:  For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and a holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.  And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;  And the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee.  And he swore unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.  And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist.  And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist.  And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath’s sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.  And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,  And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother.”

KH:    Excuse me, Mr. Herod, sir, you look worried. Are you OK?

Herod the Tetrarch:    No, I’m not OK and yes, I am worried. I think I’m making a serious mistake.

KH:    What seems to be the problem?

HT:    I just ordered my executioner to go cut off John the Baptist’s head. He is in my prison (Mark 6:27).

KH:    Why would you order him killed?

HT:    Oh, this is such a mess! How do I get in these messes? I should have listened to John. Now I’m really in trouble when I face God.

KH:    Well, just call off the execution. If you have doubts, don’t kill a man of God. Jesus said that John is the greatest man ever born of women (Matt. 11:11). Why do you think you have to kill him?

HT:    I’ll never have peace in my family if I don’t. My dad, Herod the Great, had several sons. One of them, my brother Philip, is the ruler on the other side of Galilee. He had a really good-looking wife and daughter. His wife Herodias flirted with me and finally left Philip, and I married her. John the Baptist told me this was wrong and that God was not pleased.

KH:    Well… he was right. The Bible does have a lot to say about adultery (Ex. 20:14). God hates it. John was just preaching the Truth to you. Why not just listen to him?

HT:    I know what the Bible says and I know that John is right, but Herodias got upset at his preaching and wanted me to kill him (Mark 6:18-19). She made life pretty miserable for me around the palace but I wouldn’t let her hurt him.

KH:    Why not?

HT:    Well, there were several reasons: I feared him (Mark 6:20); I know he is a prophet of God. He’s been preaching around here for a long time.

KH:    He seems to preach on a variety of topics besides just the Gospel.

HT:    Oh yeah, he preached about the sins of the tax collectors (Luke 3:12-13), the religious leaders (Matt. 3:7-10), and the soldiers (Luke 3:14). If he saw corruption, he preached against it. I spent lots of time talking with him and he always pointed out the evil in my life and administration (Luke 3:19). His preaching did make me change a lot of things (Mark 6:20). I was deeply convicted by his teaching and even considered becoming a believer in the Jesus he talks about. I also fear the people (Matt 14:5)—all of us politicians do! The people think John is a prophet.

KH:    Maybe he is. Why are you having him killed?

HT:    Well… I fear God—a little (II Kings 17:32, 41). I fear the people even more, and I fear John, but a few minutes ago, at my birthday party, my real fears surfaced.

KH:    What happened?

HT:    Herodias’s daughter danced for all my birthday guests (Matt. 14:6, Mark 6:22). Everyone really liked it, especially me. I made one of those spur-of-the-moment rash promises that people make when they are burning with lust. I promised to give her anything she wanted, up to half of my kingdom (Mark 6:22-23).

KH:    So what did she ask for?

HT:    That’s the problem. She asked for John the Baptist’s head. I think her mother put her up to it (Matt. 14:8; Mark 6:24). That’s why I ordered my man to go get it.

KH:    Why not first tell her you made a mistake in giving her that promise and tell her no?

HT:    I made the promise publicly. I’d look bad in front of my friends if I didn’t do it (Matt. 14:9, Mark 6:26). It might cost me my job at the next election. Plus, I’d certainly have to sleep on the couch for a while—maybe for life.

KH:    You will have a man of God killed and destroy his family and ministry because of fear of the people (Prov. 29:25) and to satisfy the lust of your flesh (Gal. 5:16, I John 2:16)? Don’t you fear God?

HT:    Yes, but not enough.

33 Comments

  1. pabramson June 10, 2008 4:59 am

    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for your comments of – June 9th, 2008 at 11:05pm.

    You wrote: “…It is a good thing that you have a desire to defend the fatherless, & widows, and the poor, surely this is an admirable thing before God and the Father.

    James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

    And I too admire a heart (Your Heart) which goes out to defend a Catholic, or …

    Again, I see Jesus focussing himself on individuals all the time, this is truly a good thing.

    However, I don’t understand why you desire to defend an Institution…?”

    Let’s see, I want to be inclusive, but sufficiently exclusive. That is hard to do.

    Luke 9:50 “And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”

    We humans tend to look for external indicators.

    Back in Berkeley I tried to witness to some Jehovah’s Witnesses on a couple of occasions. I even visited their church once. Much darkness there. I was not against them as persons, but they’ve gotten the Gospel message all convoluted. They do not believe a plain reading of the Scripture. Their “Watchtower” magazine and other publications openly pervert the Gospel. But surely there are some within who could be saved if they were reached with the truth.

    To be against “all Catholics” … is a temptation, of a sort.

    We should not pray to saints:

    Acts 14:14-15 “Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein.”

    But some Protestants pray to Jesus. Why? Isn’t that too unscriptural?

    1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

    Jesus taught us whom to pray to:
    Matthew 6:9 “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”

    Mary is a special woman. But Catholics usually ignore an obvious Scripture:

    Luke 11:27-28 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”

    So, talking about Geno: He seems to refer to Scripture when it is convenient. But his “final authority” appears to be human consensus. As the Greeks taught long ago, “Man is the measure of all things.” No, we are insufficient. Geno falls into error at that point. Our consensus can and does go astray.

    Geno accepts evolution as “scientific” (though it violates the laws of science at every turn); and evolutionary beliefs directly contradict Scripture.

    As we know: …

    Evolution teaches that death, over many generations, caused humans.

    Creation teaches that humans, by sin, caused death to come into being.

    So did death cause humans, or did humans cause death?

    Evolution teaches that the universe exploded from nothing into something for no reason, then stars coalesced, finally forming the Sun and the Earth.

    Creation teaches that the Earth was created on Day One. But the Sun, Moon, and stars did not get formed until Day Four.

    I would recommend to anyone Dr. Hovind’s Seminar #1, “The Age of the Earth”, which you mentioned. Also, there is a good, free book on-line:
    http://www.creationism.org/ackerman/index.htm

    He (Geno) has free will. It sometimes takes years for a person to realize that they’re under a deception, or under multiple deceptions. While some Catholic doctrines are sorely in error, God has used some Catholics for His purposes. He has used some Protestants too. But not all Protestants are Christians, of course. Doctrinally, a person “has a better chance” if they’re closer to the Scripture in the first place.

    I guess I don’t like the “blanket” rejection, based on an external brand name. Jack Chick has some excellent tracts. But you almost can’t use them with Catholics. If our goal is to bring folks to the Savior then don’t we need to try to look on the condition of the heart? And not on external labels? …

    Matthew 8:5-10 “And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.”

    So, this man is a heathen; a gentile. A Roman; an oppressor. He is part of their military oppression. Why don’t they stop occupying Israel! Herod and Pilate should get out of Jerusalem and Galilee. Israel for the Jews!

    But Jesus ignores all of that. Those things are not even addressed. This centurion’s position and institutional affiliation is not of great concern. It is his heart! And his faith! “…When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.”

    Matthew 8:13-14 “And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour. And when Jesus was come into Peter’s house, he saw his wife’s mother laid, and sick of a fever.”

    (I tagged on verse 14, because it is another one related to Catholic beliefs. Peter (“the first Pope”, they claim) was a married man.)

    Either Scripture is the final authority or man’s opinion is.

    ====

    Separate subject – Jason, did you write that you’d read the book: “The Energy Non-Crisis” by Rev. Williams recently?

    http://www.creationism.org

  2. Hubert June 10, 2008 8:36 am

    Hi Kent, it is good to read your posts. I haven’t written you in a while, but it isn’t because I am not thinking of you and family and situation. I’m still here every day praying. God is with us. Be not weary in well doing as His word says. Please pray that the Lord will use me too to win souls for Him. Hubert

  3. pabramson June 10, 2008 10:00 am

    ” Worries mount as world’s farmers push for big harvest” – May 10, 2008
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/10/business/10planting.php

    From Article: “…At a moment when the country’s corn should be flourishing, one plant in 10 has not even emerged from the ground, the Agriculture Department said Monday. Because corn planted late is more sensitive to heat damage in high summer, every day’s delay practically guarantees a lower yield at harvest. …

    “Last winter, as the full scope of the global food crisis became clear, commodity prices doubled or tripled, provoking grumbling in America, riots in two dozen countries and the specter of greatly increased malnutrition.

    “As the world clamors for more corn, wheat, soybeans and rice, farmers are trying to meet the challenge. Millions of acres are coming back into production in Europe. In Asia, planting two or three crops in a single year is becoming more common. …

    “United States soybean plantings are running 16 percent behind last year. Rice is tardy in Arkansas, which produces nearly half the country’s crop. …”

    ====

    And all of this – but the hail storms haven’t started yet. Nor the Summer’s real heat.

    http://www.creationism.org

  4. mollypitcher June 10, 2008 10:37 am

    Well, I really enjoy reading this today. Me and my friend love to watch the old videos someone gave me once. I would like better, clearer videos and hope to order some one day. I know that things are only getting worse and worse and people who don’t read into the signs must surely be “drunk” with their vices somewhow. I guess like Herod, they would like to bury themselves into their little, small worlds of me, my associates, immediate surroundings. Please pray that I can do what the Lord required of me last year, one year late. I need to do something that has been intercepted by man’s advice when clearly I knew the Lord told me different. I was so absorbed into the immediate that I lost my vision and it clouded. Bless you Brother Kent. I know our Redeemer lives and makes intercession. Rejoice in your trials. “In the world you will have tribulation but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world” Do you know who said that?

    http://misspow.tripod.com/

  5. Jason June 10, 2008 1:31 pm

    Hi Paul,

    Thank you for your kind response to my recent post (June 10th, 2008 at 4:59am).

    You wrote:
    To be against “all Catholics” … is a temptation, of a sort.
    I guess I don’t like the “blanket” rejection, based on an external brand name.

    Reading all your post, I find there is little to (nearly) nothing, on which we disagree.
    If I came across as being against all Catholics, I am sorry, that is/was not my intention of heart.
    I am no more against all Catholics, as I am against all Buddhists, Jehovah Witnesses or Moslems.

    In fact, I don’t consider myself to be against any Catholics at all, I would extend my love to the Pope just as the Dalai Lama, after all…
    He’s a man, just like I am.
    Fallible, just like I am.
    Desperately needs God’s Grace in order to get into Heaven, just as I do.
    All men have fallen short, All men are Liars, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
    Psalms 14:3 Psalms 53:3 Romans 3:12

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    God so Loved the *WORLD*, meaning everyone in the world.
    God loved me when I hated Him, and mocked Him, and poured derision upon all who professed a belief in Him.
    I have no right to be against ANY Catholic, considering all my sins it would be hypocritical of me to take such a position, especially if I were to *try* & raise myself above morally or intellectually.

    It is not the ‘people’ I’m against; ……..it’s the ‘Institution‘.

    You wrote (June 9th, 2008 at 6:38am):
    “The Catholic Church has been around for a long time. Any institution with a history has some bad times or bad incidents.
    In the past there have been indulgences and forced “confessions” even using torture, at its worst in The Inquisition. But in contrast – the Church has fed, educated, and clothed millions.”

    You appear to defend the ‘*institution*’, I cannot stand with you in this regard.

    We agree that the Bible is our guide, I simply put forward that the Institution of the Catholic Church fits the description given in Revelation 17:3-6 (whore of Babylon). The view I take is not without reason, I compare scripture with scripture, look up from reading The Bible and say, “Oh yeah, there it is”, Wow isn’t the Bible accurate.

    But still, I don’t hold any ill feeling towards the Catholic people, any more than I would towards any other people.

    Remember how you compared the Catholics to the Pharisees; Jesus Loved the Individual people (like Nicodemus), but as far as the Institution was concerned, His words were very severe.

    Quote:
    If our goal is to bring folks to the Savior then don’t we need to try to look on the condition of the heart? And not on external labels?

    I agree we shouldn’t look at external labels, whether Catholic, Jehovah witness, Mormon, Buddhist, or Moslem. God loves all people and would have them stop believing that they can somehow attain to a form of goodness through their own striving (hoping to gain entry into paradise). Instead put their Faith in the Grace of Jesus ALONE and receive the free gift of righteousness, because the work has already been done in FULL.

    ……………………………

    “Separate subject – Jason, did you write that you’d read the book: “The Energy Non-Crisis” by Rev. Williams recently?”

    Yes, you can read the book for free here;
    http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

    Since I last wrote, the price I pay for fuel has risen by 10pence a litre,
    making it approximately £1.30 per litre or $9.60 per US Gallon.

    I think the best expression for the situation is that we are akin to cattle being Farmed for our Money.

    Lots of Love

    Jason x

  6. The Welders Wife June 11, 2008 8:19 am

    PICTURE THIS:

    Pull out of your bookshelf the biggest Bible you can find, & then set it down where you can grab it.[If you don’t have a big Bible, use some kind of large book.]

    Next hold out one of your hands & visualize some little tiny people walking around in the palm of you hand. Next, visualize yourself as one of those little tiny people.

    Next, visualize God & Heaven way up above your hand.

    Next, place that huge book over the top of the above hand & visualize it weighing down the people underneath it. While you are doing that, imagine that that book contains the record of every sin & secret motive in our lives. It’s like a heavy burden that holds us down so that we cannot enter into a perfect relationship with God.

    Now hold out your other hand & imagine Jesus standing in the middle of the palm of that hand. The Bible says that, “all we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the LORD has laid on Him (Jesus) the iniquity(sin) of us all.”

    Now switch the book to the other hand so that it’s resting on top of Jesus instead of you & the others…
    God put our sins on His Son when He died on the cross. The Bible tells us, “God made Christ who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

    Now raise the hand up towards the ceiling that you have placed yourself in. Because of God putting all our sins on Christ, this makes it possible for us to be free from the load & the guilt of our sin, so that we can have a right relationship with God.

  7. Geno June 11, 2008 2:07 pm

    pabramson
    Said this on June 10th, 2008 at 4:59am:
    ——————————————————————————–
    Matthew 8:13-14 “And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour. And when Jesus was come into Peter’s house, he saw his wife’s mother laid, and sick of a fever.”

    (I tagged on verse 14, because it is another one related to Catholic beliefs. Peter (”the first Pope”, they claim) was a married man.)

    ***********
    Geno:
    So far as I know, Catholics never claimed Peter wasn’t married. Church doctrine on the matter of unmarried priests is to emulate Jesus who, so far as we know, was not married. Since the unmarried priesthood is a matter of Cannon Law, not God’s Law, the Catholic Church can change that rule at any time. In fact, in the Eastern Rites, priests are allowed to be married.

    IMO, the rules against married priests are a great burden that greatly reduces the number (and quality) of potential priests and should be changed. The current Pope is hardly inclined to do so.

  8. CampusPreacher June 11, 2008 6:05 pm

    Roman Catholicism is Babylonian Mystery Religion mixed with tenents of Judaism and Christianity.

    It is not valid spiritual religion at all. There may be adherents, mostly young who were raised in the religion who have pure motives. If they read and obey the Bible, at some point they will have to separate from the RC organization.

    (Mr. Abramson) Does it look like Bro. Hovind will have to do the 10 years?

    The Campus Preacher

  9. mtlionsroar June 12, 2008 4:59 am

    How true! Too many “fear God, but not enough”! Is that really ‘fear’ or reverence at all then? Thanks for the encouragement Kent! God always seems to know what I need, and uses your ‘knee-mails’ to drive the point home! I will stand firm. I will honor God!-even if it means I lose and offend a good friend. I will act on Biblical Principles!

    Thanks so much!
    Dee

    Remembering your bonds.

  10. pabramson June 12, 2008 6:27 am

    - They call free speech – hate speech; i.e. they hate free speech. –

    “Hate speech or free speech? What much of West bans is protected in U.S.” – June 11, 2008
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/11/america/hate.php

    From Article: “A couple of years ago, a Canadian magazine [Maclean’s] published an article arguing that the rise of Islam threatened Western values. The article’s tone was mocking and biting, but it said nothing that conservative magazines and blogs in the United States did not say every day without fear of legal reprisal.

    “Things are different here [Canada]. The magazine is on trial. …

    “Canada, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, South Africa, Australia and India all have laws or have signed international conventions banning hate speech. Israel and France forbid the sale of Nazi items like swastikas and flags. It is a crime to deny the Holocaust in Canada, Germany and France.

    “Last week, the actress Brigitte Bardot, an animal rights activist, was fined €15,000, or $23,000, in France for provoking racial hatred by criticizing a Muslim ceremony involving the slaughter of sheep.”

    http://www.creationism.org

  11. pabramson June 12, 2008 9:08 am

    “Lawmakers say Capitol computers hacked by Chinese” – June 12, 2008
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080612/ap_on_go_co/china_hacking

    From Article: “… Wolf said the first computer hacked in his office belonged to the staffer who works on human rights cases and that others included the machines of Wolf’s chief of staff and legislative director.

    ” ‘They knew which ones to get,’ said Dan Scandling, who currently is on leave of absence from his job as Wolf’s chief of staff. ‘It was a very sophisticated operation,’ he said. ‘The FBI verified that it had been done.’ …”

    ====

    Unless absolutely needed, do not give your SSN on medical and dental forms. They will type it into your medical records on their computers.

    I trust doctors and nurses. But I do not trust hackers who sometimes outsmart Microsoft programmers!

    Don’t use your debit card lots of times every week. Pay cash for minor transactions like buying lunch. Every usage has to go through multiple communications lines and computers.

    Do you have more than one computer? Then why not keep the powerful computer OFF of the Internet. Use the clunky slower one for Email and web browsing. Keep the real computer safe, i.e. off-line! Don’t let kids or grandkids download “games” (with spyware!) into your computer, or at least only let them use the slower clunky one.

    And if you get elected to Congress (unlike me, who won’t be) then do NOT, repeat DO NOT put confidential lists of honest persons who trusted you onto computers exposed to the Internet! Keep such lists only on computers that never touch the Internet. Protect the persons who trusted you with their names and information.

    http://www.creationism.org

  12. pabramson June 12, 2008 10:33 am

    “Flooding Hits Historic 500-Year Levels in Iowa” – June 12, 2008
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365943,00.html

    From Article: “… The surging river caused part of a railroad bridge and about 20 hopper cars loaded with rocks to collapse into the river. The cars had been positioned on the bridge in hopes of weighing it down against the rising water.

    ” ‘We’re in uncharted territory — this is an event beyond what anybody could even imagine,’ said Brian Pierce, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Davenport.

    “As Cedar Rapids dealt with rising flood waters, other Iowa cities warily watched rivers further swollen by storms overnight into Thursday that brought up to 5 inches of rain across west central Iowa. …”

    http://www.creationism.org

  13. pabramson June 13, 2008 9:50 am

    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for your comments of – June 10th, 2008 at 1:31pm.

    The “whore of Babylon”. The interpretation of the “Catholic Church” may indeed be correct. I know that many teach this. But I admit that such delineation is not my primary focus. So I haven’t worried about it much.

    One thing about Bible prophecy is that it sometimes has a double fulfillment. For example:

    Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

    That happened in 70 AD, with Roman armies. The Christians, believing Jesus, got out of town! Most of the Jews stayed and were murdered as they tried to flee during the siege. But if it should have a future fulfillment as well, then the principle (or I should say “exact wording”) is the same. It would be a different sending institution, but the same situation – of armies surrounding Jerusalem.

    Maybe the Catholic Church, only selectively believing the Scriptures (a very stupid thing to do), and then falling into further error will cause this. -Eventually turning wholly against God in their beliefs. Believing church traditions over believing the Word of God is wrong, as Jesus said.

    Mark 7:13a “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition….”

    Differentiating between individuals and institutions:

    Myself, as one who has lived overseas twice, for about 8 years of my adult life, speaking some Japanese and some German, and having met many foreign exchange students – let me mention an interesting situation. It is my experience that the poorer the country (generally speaking), the higher up the foreign exchange student. In other words, I have sometimes made friends with exchange students from terribly poor Central Asian or African countries, only to find out later that the young man is the son of a chief, or his uncle is the foreign minister of the country, or similar. There is a converse relationship going on.

    The American hears, Bangladesh, and thinks, “Oh, this guy is penniless, because his country is practically destitute.” But actually that exchange student is one of the few able to travel abroad. He may be flush with cash, driving a nice car. But the average Japanese exchange student is more akin to an American student living abroad, living on a tight budget.

    Christians – we are ignoring a great evangelistic opportunity! These exchange students are coming to us! They are living in America. But they often have few or no American friends.

    In some “university towns” the churches have wisely organized, and open a house near campus in the evenings or one night per week. All foreign exchange students are invited to come for dinner, music, and conversation. It is a big commitment. So the churches may coordinate to have a different team prepare and host dinner each (e.g.) Friday evening, trading off responsibilities.

    I remember an Iranian man whom I got to know many years ago. He was distraught about what his government was doing, but he did not dare complain. He was just trying to get an education.

    I had a neighbor on a campus who was Iraqi. But he had married an American woman. They (this was before, under Saddam) did not dare go back to visit his family. She’d be killed; he imprisoned. He was, in some ways, stuck in America; isolated from his family.

    ====

    We know that Herod had John the Baptist killed. (Hey Geno, if you’re reading, this proves that the Baptists pre-date the Catholics! John — the BAPTIST was there first.) -Folks, just a joke here. – But I have pointed out that the wife of Herod’s steward (Luke 8:3) helped support Jesus’ ministry financially. The “institution” is one thing, but God can use individuals – in spite of “what they stand for” externally.

    Institutions are secondary. It is my experience to ignore someone’s institutional affiliation. In fact I overtly try to show respect and to even ask questions related to their “official” beliefs. I have to try to be careful in what I say, in order to be appropriately inclusive, while also Biblically exclusive.

    When I was living in the Bay Area, in Berkeley, there were a couple of times when I was trying to line up speaking engagements for Dr. Hovind. Stanford University is not that far away so I went down there a couple of times. I sent Emails to all the Christian groups on campus. Zero response. Fine. There are other doors to knock on.

    Do you know who tried to help me!? – The leader of the Stanford atheist group!!

    The Christian groups did not even bother replying to me. “Oh the Bible literally true? Yawn. Pass me the hymnbook.” Let’s stay out of touch and separate “science and religion”.

    The young woman responded to my message and thought that my writing to her group in the first place was kind of funny. She was my ONLY lead. Okay – no problem with me. I took the buses on down to Palo Alto, and reached Stanford. My job is to knock on the doors – and see which ones open. I met with her for coffee. I discussed the importance of our origins and why there is even life and whether or not there is a God (god) of some kind. What a big debate this is, huh? I listened to her views on this. She understood this kind of language and soon thought that the idea of some “leading creationism speaker” coming to Stanford would be interesting for folks. Great! That was what I wanted!

    Before, I had tried to make some contact with the “religious studies” leaders on campus, but they (I am paraphrasing) replied: “We want to stand in line with the Pharisees and false prophets on Judgment Day, and we like being comfortable and respected now; us going straight to Hell later – oh, but God is “loving” isn’t He?) Anyway, with her in the lead – we went to their small building – went right in and she introduced me to them. Isn’t that amazing!

    We could not coordinate such a meeting there. It did not come together. I tried – but coordinating a room for Dr. Hovind and trying to arrange publicity – was not possible to do at that time.

    There have been a few Catholic creationists over the years. But tragically, tragically! – the Protestants eventually run them off each time. How terrible. Looking at name badges and institutional affiliations sometimes weighs heavier than trying to look past those things. Leave their theology alone (IMHO), especially at first. And maybe there is a place for increased liturgy! Mosaic Law is filled with liturgy. Maybe the Protestants are off-balance in these regards. And maybe the Orthodox and Catholic churches are closer to the way that things should be. But, I don’t know. Jesus gave us few instructions regarding church organization and almost no ceremonies to uphold.

    If I could strengthen a Catholic’s beliefs in Genesis and what Moses wrote, then I have strengthened his or her understanding of Scripture as a whole. I don’t need to “bring them out” of the Catholic Church, per se. Maybe, like Martin Luther, they should stay and help tell others about an upcoming creation teaching event or other things that we’d have in common.

    Jesus’ example of “who is my neighbor” is intriguing. He tells His fellow Jews of the “good Samaritan”. “Hey, but they’re folks that are *all wrong* in their theology and doctrines!” (A “good” Samaritan!? “What an oxymoron!”, some would have thought.)

    Luke 10:30-37 “And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.”

    The Good Catholic: A certain man went to Brooklyn and fell among thieves. They beat him and stole his money. A Pentecostal pastor drove by on his way to a revival meeting. Then a Methodist elder saw him, but did not stop. A Catholic daycare worker paused, helped the man into his car and took him to a nearby clinic to bind up his wounds. He called the man’s family so they could send someone to help him get home. “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?”

    We used to have a person named, EKKMAN, here. I think he went away a couple of months back. But I remember a phrase he used, that “…doctrine is super important”. It is important, we need it! But I strongly disagreed with him that it was somehow “most” important. He seemed to me to be mean to some persons here. I strongly disliked his intolerance. It must be nice to be right all the time. (Okay, he is probably long gone now, so I should not take him to task here….)

    God can call and use people who are different in outlook than I. Well, I am probably rambling too much in this message. But I have seen God use atheists before. I know that God can use Samaritans, and He can use Catholics. Doctrinally, I am closest to Bible-believing Protestant teachings. But I am one who does not put “doctrines” and my understanding of what is going on, as most important.

    So brother, are we still in agreement? :-)

    Paul Abramson

    http://www.creationism.org

  14. pabramson June 13, 2008 2:37 pm

    “Darwin Defeated in the Bayou: Louisiana Encourages ‘Critical Thinking’ About Evolution” – June 12, 2008
    http://chronicle.com/news/article/4668/darwin-defeated-in-the-bayou-louisiana-encourages-critical-thinking-about-evolution?utm_source=at&utm_medium=en

    From Article: “The Louisiana House voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bill on Wednesday that would promote ‘critical thinking’” by students on topics such as evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning. The Louisiana Senate already passed a similar bill. …”

    ====

    We have a choice as a society, to remember that we are created by God and that our souls are owned, or to continue downward into the insanity of: evolution & thus humans make the rules, leading to such perversions as teen pregnancies, homosexual “marriage”, and other hedonism.

    We will fall into a police state (or anarchy), or we will have to return to personal responsibility with the understanding that there are rules of conduct that are bigger than our temporary little society.

    If they make homosexual “marriage” legal, and if America leads the rest of the world into such evil, what horrendous price will have to be paid?

    1 Corinthians 6:16-20 “What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.”

    As it says above: “Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.”

    Spiritual and sexual sickness abounds in these last days. If left unchecked, it will worsen.

    The world’s answer will be to try to regulate, to control information even more, and to corral people into categories and socialized systems. They’ll “take care of us”, keeping us from reaching our potentials, and hiding from the most important part of life – our relationship with God.

    Unregulated sexual conduct, while trying to regulate people leads to further problems.

    http://www.creationism.org

  15. pabramson June 13, 2008 2:55 pm

    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for the link to the book, “The Energy Non-Crisis” by Lindsey Williams

    http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

    In my 10-11 years of building http://www.creationism.org – there is only ONE item that I ever had to remove.

    When I removed it, I put up a notice regarding it – for six months, as a way of public notification. And it was an event that Williams related in this book. I wrote to him twice to get verification, but never heard back. (They’d fulfill book orders – but my questions were never answered. … So I reluctantly removed something that he had written.) It is the story below.

    ====

    – From CHAPTER 5 –

    http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis-ch5.html

    ” …I want to tell you a second incident that you will find hard to believe. As it cannot be documented, it might not be true, but I shall simply report it as it was told to me. One day I actually watched an operation proceeding at Pump Station 3, but did not take any special interest. After all, proceedings were going on all the time. However, on this particular day a man whom I personally know to be very reliable came to me and said something like this: ‘Chaplain, you won’t believe this, but we were digging in this gravel pit on the Sag River, quite a number of feet under the surface depth. We brought to the surface what looked like a big Louisiana bull frog. We brought it into the building and allowed it to thaw out.’

    “As I say, what was then told to me is hard to believe. However, let me point out that the frog is a cold-blooded mammal, and that in the winter season it does go into a virtual state of deep freeze much like the hibernation associated with bears and other Arctic animals.

    “This his man described the way in which the frog was left there and then thawed out. He claimed they actually watched as it totally thawed, and that it then quite perceptibly moved—in fact it appeared to be alive, with those perceptible movements taking place for several minutes. Then the movement ceased, and the men threw the frog away. Of course, it would have been better if they had kept it and had the story both witnessed and properly authenticated. Nevertheless, I mention it as an incident that was accepted by others as actually taking place. I have no reason to doubt it. …”

    ====

    How long could a creature hibernate, in theory?

    http://www.creationism.org

  16. The Welders Wife June 13, 2008 6:29 pm

    ‘ECHAD’ & ‘ACHAT’
    [‘ONE’ (masculine) & ‘ONE’ (feminine)]

    Last summer somebody asked me, “How do you know God is a ‘Him’ & not a ‘Her’?” And then the person asking the question went on to declare to me that he thought God was a ‘Her’.
    Of course I answered him with, “The Hebrew word for ‘God’[‘Elohim’] is masculine & not feminine”
    And then I went to Genesis 1:26 [where it says in the KJV “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:….”]
    and I explained to him how it reads in the Hebrew:
    “And He-says
    Elohim[plural noun]
    We-create[1-person-plural]
    man[masculine-singular]
    in-image-Ours[noun-masculine-One-Person-Plural]
    like-likeness-Ours[noun-masculine-One-Person-plural]”
    [Hebrew is “vi yomer Elohim naaseh adam *btzalmenu **kidmutenu”]
    [*The root word meaning for ‘btzalmenu’ also includes ‘shadow or image’]
    [**The root word meaning for ‘kidmutenu’ also includes ‘to imagine, think, meditate’.]

    And then I continued with verse 27 [which says in the KJV “So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male & female created He them.”]
    and I explained to him how it reads in the Hebrew:
    “And He-creates[masculine-singular]
    Elohim et
    the man[noun-masculine-singular]
    in-image-His[masculine-singular]
    in-form-of(image)[masculine-singular]
    Elohim
    He-creates[masculine-singular]
    him*
    male & female
    He-creates[masculine-singular]
    them**.
    [Hebrew is “vi vivra Elohim et ha adam bitzalmo bitzelem Elohim bara oto zachar oo nkeivah bara otam.”]
    [* ‘him’[the first man] is spelled et-v.[pronounced ‘oh-toe’] It’s the aleph-tav with a nail. ‘v’= nail….. Didn’t the nail produce blood?]
    [** ‘them’ is spelled et-m.[pronounced ‘oh-tam’] It’s the aleph-tav with water… ‘m’ is a picture of water.]

    In the past couple of days I have also come to the realization, that the Hebrew is even more clear than the above on the issue. In Hebrew, if the noun is a masculine noun, then the adjectives that describe that noun also have to be in the masculine gender, or feminine gender if the noun is feminine. ‘Numbers’ are also adjectives.

    Example #1: ONE/ACHAT[feminine adjective]

    Genesis 2:21 KJV reads “And the LORD caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

    The Hebrew reads:
    & He-cast YAHVEH Elohim deep-sleep upon the man
    vi yapel YAHVEH ELOHIM tardamah al ha adam

    & he-sleeps & He-takes one[feminine] from his-ribs & He-closes-up flesh in-her-place
    Va yeeshan va yeekach achat mi tzalotayv vi yisgor basar tachtenah

    And we’ll add verse 22 just because:

    & He-builds/constructs YAHVEH Elohim et the rib that takes from the man into a-woman
    vi yeeven YAHVEH Elohim et ha tzayla asher lakach min ha adam lay eeshah

    & He-brings-her-to et the man
    vi yaveeyah et ha adam

    [KJV 2:22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman, & brought her unto the man.]

    Example #2: ONE/ACHAT[feminine adjective] & ONE/ECHAD[masculine adjective]
    In Hebrew a ‘month/c’hodesh’ is a masculine noun & a ‘year/shanah’ is a feminine noun

    Genesis 8:13 reads in the Hebrew:
    & it-was in one[feminine] & six hundreds year
    va y’he ba achat v sheish mayot shanah

    in first(head,leader,chief) on one[masculine] to month
    ba rishon b’ echad la c’hodesh

    dried the 2-waters from upon the earth
    charvu ha miyim may al ha aretz

    & removes Noah et covering the ark
    va yasar Noach et michseih ha teivah

    & sees & behold dried face-of the ground
    va yar v hineih charvu pnay ha adamah

    [KJV 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth & first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from the earth: & Noah removed the covering of the ark, & looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.]

    OK…..Now check this out!

    Deuteronomy 6:4

    KJV: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    Hebrew:
    Sha-mah Yisraeil YAHVEH Eloheiynu YAHVEH echad
    Hear/listen Israel YAHVEH God-ours YAHVEH one[masculine]

  17. Geno June 14, 2008 2:30 pm

    pabramson
    Said this on June 13th, 2008 at 2:55pm:
    ——————————————————————————–

    How long could a creature hibernate, in theory?
    *********
    Geno:
    Understanding that biology really isn’t my main thing….

    If you mean hibernate in the way bears do it, as long as their food supply lasts. This is because bears don’t stop functioning completely in the winter, so they must continue to consume energy (stored in fat). Once their supply of stored energy runs out, they will starve.

    On the other hand, it is my understanding that there are some animals (the frog you described may have been one) that “hibernate” by freezing completely solid. Their metabilism stops. In essence, they die. These animals can then thaw out and resume their normal life processes. My best guess is that these creatures could (theoretically) hibernate forever.

  18. Geno June 14, 2008 2:42 pm

    The Welders Wife
    Said this on June 13th, 2008 at 6:29pm:
    ——————————————————————————–
    Last summer somebody asked me, “How do you know God is a ‘Him’ & not a ‘Her’?” And then the person asking the question went on to declare to me that he thought God was a ‘Her’.
    Of course I answered him with, “The Hebrew word for ‘God’[‘Elohim’] is masculine & not feminine”
    *********
    Geno:
    Since God is a spiritual being, I don’t believe He (I use the term in the generic sense of the English language) has a gender in the same way we do.
    **********

    WW:
    And then I went to Genesis 1:26 [where it says in the KJV “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:….”]
    ************
    Geno:
    OK….
    *************

    WW:

    And then I continued with verse 27 [which says in the KJV “So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male & female created He them.”]
    *********
    Geno:
    If God is male, then the females would not be made in the image of God. (Unless God is a hermaphodite.) That would eliminate half of the human population.

    That is why my belief is that God was saying He made us in His spiritual image, not a physical one. Humans are unique in that we alone share God’s spiritual nature which allows us to share His eternal life.

  19. Jason June 15, 2008 12:12 am

    Hi Paul,

    Yet again I have to pay you respect, indeed you display a kind heart towards others; a heart which others (myself included) could but wish to come close to emulating.

    You gave some very interesting examples to elaborate your perspective, and as far as I can see doing things the way you do appears to have born much fruit; again something I would admire and respect you for.

    I see that you want to see people saved, this shows in your passion to organise evangelical events for Dr. Hovind etc.
    Yet at the same time you say that don’t want to touch on people’s theology?

    Quote:
    Leave their theology alone (IMHO), especially at first.

    I have to confess that this confuses me a little, as some theology I do view as ‘super important’ and some other, I would class as having less importance.

    I will try to elaborate…

    When I was first saved I didn’t/hadn’t read the Bible (but soon started to read the Good News Bible), I believed in evolution, I drank and smoked, had all manner of unsocial habits. I didn’t go to church at all (this happened about two years later); there was no evangelist save one friend who came to believe at the same time as me (we sort of reasoned the need for God, between ourselves through conversation), BUT I was saved. God has taken years changing me (and the process is still ongoing).

    So, I conclude that being saved is not to do with which is the correct Bible, or where/when you believe mankind originated, or whether you drink or smoke, or go to church, OR whether you follow the LAW or not.
    When I was first saved my theology in all these areas did have some room for improvement, God had/still has these things in hand. But, getting my theology right in these areas was not as important as understanding how I was forgiven.

    At that time, somehow, I had come to the point of understanding that I was completely hopeless and incapable of managing my own life in any form of successful manner. I had tried, but through my own will I was a complete failure. I therefore knew that Gods love & forgiveness HAD TO BE UNCONDITIONAL if I was ever to receive it. I knew that if any part of the deal depended upon me then I was doomed to fail.

    I believe that this theological understanding, I had come to at the time, was ‘Super Important’, indeed I still cannot depart from it (even to this very day), because it is as true now as it was then.
    So, in this regard I find that my weakness is my strength, in other words KNOWING that I cannot do it on my own stops me from being deceived into false doctrines where I would be required to do so.

    How pleased I was when I found that this was true Biblical Doctrine, surely God (the living God) had been guiding me to himself, and that the extent of my sin became the very thing that drove me into a true understanding of God’s love and forgiveness for me.

    Here is a list of activities… It seems as though I might be persuaded (by some) into thinking that I need to do these things in order to be saved and ensure ongoing forgiveness.

    Work to receive forgiveness.
    Getting someone from the church to instruct me on some form of penance, and doing it.
    Personal sacrifice.
    Evangelising lots of people.
    Wear special underwear.
    Don’t worship God on a Sunday, and keep a Saturday Sabbath.
    Go to church allot; Pay my tithe in full; Get Baptised; Participate in Communion; Obey the Ten Commandments; Pray lots; Read the Bible; Be really loving; Be really sorry for my sin.
    Don’t take any form of drug legal or illegal; Stop swearing.
    Ask Jesus’ mum to persuade Jesus to forgive me.
    Become a vegetarian.
    Take it that I can never know whether I am forgiven or not, and spend each day trying to do all/some of the above, and hope that if I beg lots every day, I might just pass the test.

    There are so many ideas flying about how is anyone supposed to know how to get saved?
    Maybe it doesn’t matter so much, we could just be nice and Jesus would forgive us because he likes our smile? After all he is a loving God…
    OR, What if we only get forgiven for everything once, then God starts remembering again? Well, that’s me done for then :(

    Paul, I believe we would agree that, without forgiveness for our sins, we are doomed to take our place in the lake of fire.
    Is this not the motivation behind all your evangelical efforts?
    ………

    I think that the problem with salvation theology is that it seems so complicated that it turns people off. When in actuality it is very simple; so simple in fact that people can’t/won’t believe it.

    Salvation comes through Faith in the Grace of Christ ALONE, there is NO WORK.
    Work is good, and ‘one’ is compelled to it, but it is not the method of salvation.

    What do we do then?
    With sincerity of heart, understand that we are sinful, ask Jesus to wash away our sins, trust Him with our life.
    (Jesus has, paid the price for our sins already, making the sacrifice with His own Blood, THE WORK IS ALREADY DONE).

    Is Theology Important?
    Some people will do amazing things in Jesus’ Name, but will never know salvation.

    Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    What do you think the problem was/is?
    ……………..

    Paul, I do believe that we agree on more than we disagree.
    I would like to say again that I am not against the *people* who follow other religious faiths, I am however bothered about their salvation. This will inevitably raise issues of theology (I’m Sorry) but what is more important, the age of the earth or where you will spend eternity?

    Lots of Love

    Jason x

  20. Elethiomel June 15, 2008 9:39 am

    regarding Geno and Welder’s wife…

    what does “he” or “she” actually mean? Only I don’t know how it can be applied to a spiritual being.

    and is there any gender neutral word for “Elohim” in Hebrew?

  21. for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974 June 15, 2008 11:46 pm

    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2008tfdp.php
    reported as a 6.8
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366926,00.html
    reported as a 7.2

    true, they are only numbers, nothing to build a doctrine on. we certainly don’t wish to cause a panic among the chattering classes.

    PA:_ re: “Flooding Hits Historic 500-Year Levels in Iowa” —the good news for residents of Cedar Rapids is that they won’t have to worry about flooding like this for another 499 years; scientists have spoken and we can bow our heads in reverence at their utterance and gratitude for the coming respite.

    in any case its good news and champagne all round for carpet salesmen.

  22. Samphire June 16, 2008 5:15 am

    Paul quoted:

    “As I say, what was then told to me is hard to believe. However, let me point out that the frog is a cold-blooded mammal, ………..”

    True; that is hard to believe.

    The great thing about this blog is that one learns something new nearly every day.

  23. pabramson June 16, 2008 9:31 am

    Dear Samphire,

    Thank you for your comment of – June 16th, 2008 at 5:15am.

    Yes, I have to agree that the idea of a frog being a “cold-blooded mammal” was a new one to me as well.

    Up until now, the only cold-blooded mammals that I have been aware of is lawyers.

    http://www.creationism.org

  24. Samphire June 16, 2008 10:57 am

    pabramson
    Said this on June 16th, 2008 at 9:31am:

    “Up until now, the only cold-blooded mammals that I have been aware of is lawyers.”

    My word! That’s a little harsh on frogs, especially our resident species, doctus manus.

  25. The Welders Wife June 16, 2008 3:21 pm

    Dear Geno, [and also Elethiomel]

    The Apostles’ Creed states:
    1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
    2. And in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, our Lord:
    3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
    4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
    5. The third day He rose again from the dead:
    6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
    7. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
    8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:

    The only Gender in the above that might be a mystery to some is The Holy Ghost.
    But what do the scriptures say?
    Let’s start with The Father.

    My favorite Gospel is the Gospel of John. One of the reasons is because it talks about the intimate relationship between God the Father & God the Son. Jesus mentions God as being His Father 112 times in the Gospel of John. Between chapter 13 & 18:11 Jesus addresses God the Father as ‘Father’ as somebody He knew intimately, so much so that His disciples begged Him to show them The Father! [14:8].[Between 13 & 18:11 Jesus refers to Him as ‘Father’ 53 times! I’ve got them high-lited in yellow in some of my Bibles]. And when He rises from the dead, the first person He see [Mary Magdalene] He tells, “but go to My brethren, & say to them, I ascend to My Father & your Father, & to My God & your God [20:17]. So… The Father is a ‘Him’ & not a ‘Her’.

    Next question: Is Jesus/Yeshua just a person or is He God Incarnate? If He’s God Incarnate, then it’s obvious that he’s a Him & not a her! I’m learning a song in Hebrew from Isaiah 9:6 & Isaiah 53:3,5. It’s all about Yeshua/Jesus. The chorus, which is the 2nd half of Isaiah 9:6 goes like this:
    Vayikya sh’mo [and call Name-His]
    Pele Yo-eytz [Wonderful Counsellor]
    El Gibbor [Mighty God]
    Aviyad [Everlasting Father]
    Sar-Shalom [Prince of Peace]

    The song starts with the first half of Isaiah 9:6:
    Ke Yeled yulad-lanu [Because Child born-to-us]
    ben nitan-lanu [Son given-to-us]
    vat’hi hamisrah al shichmo [& the government upon shoulders-His]

    Ok, now for the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost.
    In Hebrew He’s The Ruach HaKodesh!
    Ruach is Spirit. Ha Kodesh is The HOLY. ‘Spirit The-HOLY’
    Psalm 139:7 Says ‘Whither shall I go from thy Spirit?’
    [‘Spirit’ is masculine]

    Elohim: Masculine or Feminine? Psalm 136:2 says word for word from the Hebrew:
    Hodu/thank leiloheiy/to-God-of ha-elohim/the-gods key/because l’olam/forever Chasdo/mercy-His
    KJV: ‘O give thanks to the God of gods: for His mercy endureth for ever.’
    ‘Elohim’ when referring to Father, Son, & Holy Ghost is Masculine!

    The rule of thumb is that scripture explains scripture. You’re going to find that if you investigate it in the Hebrew, that the God of the Bible is always Masculine.

  26. The Welders Wife June 16, 2008 4:03 pm

    Jason said on June 15th:
    ‘Salvation comes through Faith in the Grace of Christ ALONE, there is NO WORK.’

    WW: Dear Jason, I agree with you 100%!

    and every work that is acceptable to God is a result of faith. There’s nothing/no work that you can do to earn salvation.
    Our salvation is solely on Christ’s sacrifice alone. He is the LAMB on whom God placed all our sins.
    In the Old Testament, when somebody sinned, they brought a clean animal to the door of the Tabernacle/Temple & placed their hands on the animal’s head & confessed their sins over that animal, & then slit that animal’s throat, & that animal died in their place to make a covering for their sin.
    On the execution stake our sins were placed on Christ, & His blood was shed to completely atone for all our sins, past, present & future. The only requirement is to believe in Him. John 3:16.

  27. Geno June 16, 2008 4:44 pm

    Elethiomel
    Said this on June 15th, 2008 at 9:39am:
    ——————————————————————————–
    what does “he” or “she” actually mean? Only I don’t know how it can be applied to a spiritual being.
    ************
    Geno:
    Agreed. “He” and “she” would seem to be irrelevant when speaking of a spiritual being.
    ***************

    The Welders Wife
    Said this on June 16th, 2008 at 3:21pm:
    ——————————————————————————–

    The rule of thumb is that scripture explains scripture. You’re going to find that if you investigate it in the Hebrew, that the God of the Bible is always Masculine.
    ***********
    Geno:
    By that argument, women are not made in the “image of God”. I will leave it to you to explain if you believe women are made in God’s image and what that way might be.

  28. for Jesus’ name: Phillip-George (c)1974 June 16, 2008 6:19 pm

    PA:_ Late last year Michael A. Marcavage [abbreviational fiction not withstanding] was arrested for preaching too close to the liberty bell. That’s the same cracked liberty bell which has on it the words “proclaim liberty throughout all the land” written on it – taken from the Leviticus 25.10 “And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.”

    the best thing to do in the absence of real liberty is to enjoy virtual liberty
    http://www.ushistory.org/libertybell/more/virtual.htm

    what time is it when men held in a jail are of more noble character, and higher integrity than the people holding them there.

    Last year also a rare photo album of Auschwitz was revealed. http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/ssalbum/?content=2 There is a photo which has some of the workers there showing their disappointment that the blueberries had run out.

    The good news PA is that the crack in the Liberty Bell doesn’t extend all the way up to where a bit of real law is being quoted.

    If we can’t have real coke we can at least still quench our thirst by looking at photos of it.

  29. Ekkman June 20, 2008 8:09 pm

    pabramson
    Said this on June 13th, 2008 at 9:50am:

    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for your comments of – June 10th, 2008 at 1:31pm.

    The “whore of Babylon”. The interpretation of the “Catholic Church” may indeed be correct. I know that many teach this. But I admit that such delineation is not my primary focus. So I haven’t worried about it much.

    One thing about Bible prophecy is that it sometimes has a double fulfillment. For example:

    Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

    That happened in 70 AD, with Roman armies. The Christians, believing Jesus, got out of town! Most of the Jews stayed and were murdered as they tried to flee during the siege. But if it should have a future fulfillment as well, then the principle (or I should say “exact wording”) is the same. It would be a different sending institution, but the same situation – of armies surrounding Jerusalem.

    Maybe the Catholic Church, only selectively believing the Scriptures (a very stupid thing to do), and then falling into further error will cause this. -Eventually turning wholly against God in their beliefs. Believing church traditions over believing the Word of God is wrong, as Jesus said.

    Ekkman said: PA, Wouldn’t it be true that you “selectively” believe the scriptures? I have asked you time and time again where are your scriptures. You answer with the Hebrew and the Greek. You nor Welder’s Wife know the Greek and you have only had two lessons in the Hebrew when I talked with you lastso I could safely say that you don’t know the Hebrew either. You remind me of a J.W. that I was debating the other day. We ended up talking bibles since that is an absolute, we must talk it if we are really going anywhere in our conversation. He said the same thing as you tell me. He brought up the Hebrew and the Greek. I then asked him did he know Hebrew and Greek. He didn’t. He laughed at me when I told him that I have the perfect word of God in the English language, the KJV. I told him that he could laugh at that but prove me wrong. I also told him that I could laugh even louder at his statement being that the perfect word of God is in the Hebrew and the Greek and he couldn’t read it. I told him that was a total blind faith. I said, “You are telling me that it is perfect and you can’t even read it, what a joke. And you are laughing at me cause I have a book that I can read and study. A book that has never been proven wrong.” It is easy to say, “I believe in the perfect word of God but for most, they cannot show it to anyone. Sad! PA, you keep telling the evolutionists that we have the scriptures and that is our foundation but in reality, you don’t have the scriptures. At least you have never told me where they are at. You then get into my comment a tiny bit below in this post to Jason, that is why I am writing in this post because you made another negative statement about me. I said, “Doctrine is super important and I still say that it is. You keep bringing up love and you never gave me a definition of love. Was Jesus moving in love when he rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees? Was Paul when he rebuked Peter? What is love to you? Is it love when I reprove Welder’s Wife when she makes false statements? Is it love when I ask her questions that she never answers? Is it love from her side to ignore me like she tells me that she does when I write her? Is it love to tell me that she isn’t gong to talk Hebrew with me till I learn it? Is that really love since she will talk Hebrew with everyone else on it whether they learn it or not since they are “learning” from her and not disagreeing, I guess.

    Mark 7:13a “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition….”

    Ekkman said: Isn’t that what you are doing and many other Christians? There are those in “power”, so to speak, who have determined that a translation can’t be the word of God. Even though it is the word of God when they went from Hebrew to Greek when they quoted many verses in the Old Testament to the New Testament.

    Differentiating between individuals and institutions:

    Ekkman said: Regarding Roman Catholicism, you can’t deal with them or any other cult as you would a denomination. A cult demands total obedience to its doctrine. There is that word, “doctrine”. Doctrine is telling a man how to live, it is very important, that is one of the reasons for scripture. You cannot be a true Roman Catholic and a true Christian, it is impossible. You can be a true Baptist, Charismatic, or Nazarene, or from other Christian denominations and still be a true Christian since they teach the born again experience in the biblical way.

    …
    Ekkman

    http://www.ekkcom.net

  30. Ekkman June 20, 2008 8:14 pm

    ====
    Part 2 to PA

    PA said,
    We know that Herod had John the Baptist killed. (Hey Geno, if you’re reading, this proves that the Baptists pre-date the Catholics! John — the BAPTIST was there first.) -Folks, just a joke here. – But I have pointed out that the wife of Herod’s steward (Luke 8:3) helped support Jesus’ ministry financially. The “institution” is one thing, but God can use individuals – in spite of “what they stand for” externally.

    Ekkman said: Geno doesn’t’ have to prove that, the Roman Catholics were never a Christian religion from their inception. They never were, but they did get more and more pagan as time went on, they kept adding more and more unbiblical doctrines to their belief system.

    Institutions are secondary. It is my experience to ignore someone’s institutional affiliation. In fact I overtly try to show respect and to even ask questions related to their “official” beliefs. I have to try to be careful in what I say, in order to be appropriately inclusive, while also Biblically exclusive.

    Ekkman said: Institutions are not secondary in a cult, they are primary, of the utmost importance, they keep the “sheep” or should I say, “goats” under control.

    When I was living in the Bay Area, in Berkeley, there were a couple of times when I was trying to line up speaking engagements for Dr. Hovind. Stanford University is not that far away so I went down there a couple of times. I sent Emails to all the Christian groups on campus. Zero response. Fine. There are other doors to knock on.

    Do you know who tried to help me!? – The leader of the Stanford atheist group!!

    The Christian groups did not even bother replying to me. “Oh the Bible literally true? Yawn. Pass me the hymnbook.” Let’s stay out of touch and separate “science and religion”.

    Ekkman said: PA, what bible are you talking about above that is literally true? Yawn past me one please.

    The young woman responded to my message and thought that my writing to her group in the first place was kind of funny. She was my ONLY lead. Okay – no problem with me. I took the buses on down to Palo Alto, and reached Stanford. My job is to knock on the doors – and see which ones open. I met with her for coffee. I discussed the importance of our origins and why there is even life and whether or not there is a God (god) of some kind. What a big debate this is, huh? I listened to her views on this. She understood this kind of language and soon thought that the idea of some “leading creationism speaker” coming to Stanford would be interesting for folks. Great! That was what I wanted!

    Before, I had tried to make some contact with the “religious studies” leaders on campus, but they (I am paraphrasing) replied: “We want to stand in line with the Pharisees and false prophets on Judgment Day, and we like being comfortable and respected now; us going straight to Hell later – oh, but God is “loving” isn’t He?) Anyway, with her in the lead – we went to their small building – went right in and she introduced me to them. Isn’t that amazing!

    Ekkman said: Since we are going to be judged by God’s word, we better have it, don’t you think?

    …

    There have been a few Catholic creationists over the years. But tragically, tragically! – the Protestants eventually run them off each time. How terrible. Looking at name badges and institutional affiliations sometimes weighs heavier than trying to look past those things.
    Ekkman said: PA, surely you are not implying that a Catholic creationist is saved because he believes in a creation? I agree, don’t run them off, share truth with them, Catholics are taught that they are saved by having water poured on their heads, that is the born again experience. They stay “saved” by eating and drinking Jesus at their Eucharist, confessing their sins to a priests and many other things.

    Leave their theology alone (IMHO), especially at first. And maybe there is a place for increased liturgy! Mosaic Law is filled with liturgy. Maybe the Protestants are off-balance in these regards. And maybe the Orthodox and Catholic churches are closer to the way that things should be. But, I don’t know. Jesus gave us few instructions regarding church organization and almost no ceremonies to uphold.

    Ekkman said: Since doctrine isn’t all that important to you then I could see you telling others to ignore their theology, since that has to do with doctrine and that isn’t important as love, whatever that is.

    If I could strengthen a Catholic’s beliefs in Genesis and what Moses wrote, then I have strengthened his or her understanding of Scripture as a whole. I don’t need to “bring them out” of the Catholic Church, per se. Maybe, like Martin Luther, they should stay and help tell others about an upcoming creation teaching event or other things that we’d have in common.

    Ekkman said: Gods commands his people to come out of her. Martin Luther would have been a dead man if he didn’t “come out” of her. Those who saw her as the whore she is came out.

    Ekkman

    http://www.ekkcom.net

  31. Ekkman June 20, 2008 8:15 pm

    ====
    Part 3 to PA

    PA said,
    Jesus’ example of “who is my neighbor” is intriguing. He tells His fellow Jews of the “good Samaritan”. “Hey, but they’re folks that are *all wrong* in their theology and doctrines!” (A “good” Samaritan!? “What an oxymoron!”, some would have thought.)

    Ekkman said: “Love” them enough to speak truth to them even at the cost of maybe becoming their enemy. It is better for them to hate you for speaking truth then to “love” you because you didn’t speak it and they die and go to hell.

    Luke 10:30-37 “And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.”

    The Good Catholic: A certain man went to Brooklyn and fell among thieves. They beat him and stole his money. A Pentecostal pastor drove by on his way to a revival meeting. Then a Methodist elder saw him, but did not stop. A Catholic daycare worker paused, helped the man into his car and took him to a nearby clinic to bind up his wounds. He called the man’s family so they could send someone to help him get home. “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?”

    Ekkman said: The neighbor spoke to him and shared the love of God with him, didn’t ignore him, hit him or whatever but spoke of word of God by the Spirit of God to him, ministered. They wouldn’t ignore them or their doctrine, theology since that can send a person to hell, the wrong belief system.

    We used to have a person named, EKKMAN, here. I think he went away a couple of months back. But I remember a phrase he used, that “…doctrine is super important”. It is important, we need it! But I strongly disagreed with him that it was somehow “most” important. He seemed to me to be mean to some persons here. I strongly disliked his intolerance. It must be nice to be right all the time. (Okay, he is probably long gone now, so I should not take him to task here….)

    Ekkman said: IF you are moving in love then doctrine will be put forth because if you know a person has false “doctrine’ then you would not be “loving” him if you let him continue on that course without saying something. Paul said, “Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? Truth (doctrine) sets people free! Don’t be afraid to speak it. I have had people hate me or very angry at me for speaking truth to them but later when they realized it was true, they thanked me over and over for persisting.

    God can call and use people who are different in outlook than I. Well, I am probably rambling too much in this message. But I have seen God use atheists before. I know that God can use Samaritans, and He can use Catholics. Doctrinally, I am closest to Bible-believing Protestant teachings. But I am one who does not put “doctrines” and my understanding of what is going on, as most important.

    Ekkman said: Rambling is a good word for it.

    So brother, are we still in agreement?
    Paul Abramson

    Ekkman said: I don’t know about Jason, but we certainly are not in agreement and we need to be, the word will unify us if we let it.

    Ekkman

    http://www.ekkcom.net

  32. Ekkman June 20, 2008 9:13 pm

    Elethiomel
    Said this on April 25th, 2008 at 12:56pm:

    DQ says to Ekkman: “Your astronomer friend believes that the earth is stationary at the center of the universe and that the sun goes around the earth.”

    Elethiomel says: nice catch. It’s rather odd that Ekkman takes his cues from someone who believes in the geocentric model.

    Ekkman said: I think if you go to the astronomer’s page and read his online book, you might find out that your catch wasn’t near as good as you thought it was. When you reel it in, you find that it was just an old boot, not even a fish, so to speak. I am seeing clearer and clearer that the solar system seems much more geocentric than heliocentric. I am seeing that the bible is easier to understand from the geocentric viewpoint. God caused the sun to stand still for a battle that Joshua was in. The earth is spoken of as being unmoving.
    I will give you the end of one of the chapters of his book. Maybe you will go to his page and check it out.

    “Conclusion
    The end of the matter is this: the earth is not moving; it has a
    place of its own. But at the great white throne judgment, the earth
    will be removed; it will flee away and move for the first time in its
    history. After these events there will be a new heaven and a new
    earth; one which is perpetually sustained by the Lord in a way that
    this present world is not sustained; for that new world will have
    been bought by the precious blood of the Son of God.”

    http://www.geocentricity.com/
    Click on the word, “Geocentricity” on the left hand side and then click on his book entitled, “A GEOCENTRICITY PRIMER
    Introduction to Biblical Cosmology”
    by
    Gerardus D. Bouw, Ph.D.

    Ekkman

    http://www.ekkcom.net

  33. Ekkman June 20, 2008 9:22 pm

    Speaking of God being “masculine”. There are many words in different languages that are masculine and feminine but that doesn’t mean the things that are mentioned are thus. The Holy Spirit is neuter at times. God is neither male or female, he is God. He is a spirit being, everywhere present, all powerful, all knowing. He is God. Since God gave man authority on planet earth, he because a man when he came to earth. Jesus Christ is the God/man. Just a few thoughts.

    Ekkman

    http://www.ekkcom.net

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