New Mission Field for Dr. Hovind

After 18 years of traveling and speaking with an incredibly hectic schedule, which included speaking as many as 900 times a year and flying over 2,000,000 miles, Dr. Hovind was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison for failure to withhold and pay employee taxes.

People have contacted our ministry with a variety of opinions, but ultimately offering support for how God has used CSE to build their faith.

Dr. Hovind’s person who assisted the attorneys for this case has written a lengthy article concerning the facts and outcome of all that has happened. If you are interested in reading this article, you can do so by going to and looking on the right hand side of the page at the bottom of the menu and clicking on “Hovind Case.”

In his opportunity to address the court, Dr. Hovind tried to choke back the tears as he went through the history of the ministry as well as a history of his correspondence with legal advisors on taxation and the letters written to the IRS that were never answered.

“I intend to obey the law and think that everyone should obey the law,” he said. “If I would have known that I was doing something unlawful, I would have corrected it.” He admitted that he had dragged his wife into a battle that she did not want, and in his final comments he asked the judge to take any sentence that would be imposed on his wife and add it to his own.

For Mrs. Jo Hovind, the judge invited the attorneys to file more motions that could result in her sentence being reduced. With that said, a new “tentative” sentencing date was set for March first of this year. Jo was allowed to return home.

As I sat through the sentencing process for my mom and dad today, a flurry of emotions went through my soul including sadness and pain in seeing how this whole process could have been avoided, thinking about the money we needed to raise, knowing my kids will miss their grandpa, and knowing the big shoes I have to fill.

God has already demonstrated time and time again that He is more than able to take a challenging situation and use it for His own glory. I don’t know how often you try to figure out what God is doing, but there is always something in me which tries to guess what God is up to. Then I remember the rhetorical questioning of Isaiah where he asks, “Who hath known the mind of the Lord?”

Yes, despite the circumstances, we look to a bright future here at CSE as we continue to produce and distribute creation material that will be used to train and equip Christians for the greatest opportunity ever – the opportunity for God to draw others to Himself through the work of CSE. There are still many who do not know the truth about creation. We feel that it is our responsibility to make this message available to all who will hear.

Please pray for me as I accept the challenge to lead CSE into this new season. I am excited, because I know God has things we cannot even imagine on the horizon. I am humbled, because as I said, these are big shoes to fill.

I have been working for my dad all my life. He has taught me everything from how to ride a bike to how to build a house. I have learned a great deal from him as I have served with this ministry in doing everything from digging ditches to speaking in churches for eight years now. I have had the opportunity to present my dad’s seminar in more than 40 states and six countries. This message and information on creation still amazes me! I will be continuing my speaking schedule to include the requests for creation talks that come in weekly. In fact, the Creation message will be the sole focus of my speaking engagements, as that is the battlefield that God has called our team to fight in. So our ministry to churches, conferences, and public engagements will not change. I would encourage you to schedule in advance and sooner-vs-later since we have one less speaker on our team for the time being.

The obvious question which many are asking is whether CSE is implementing any changes to avoid these unfortunate circumstances in the future. I would like to assure you that I have personally met with the IRS and have been seeking their advice on the future direction of our ministry. This is part of our commitment to make the creation message the sole focus of this ministry.

Many of you have asked what you can do to help and have already demonstrated your love and faithfulness to us by writing letters to the court and sending the money necessary to continue this work for God. Your love and concern overwhelms us with encouragement. And yes! There is much you can do to help.

First and most obvious, I ask that you pray.

–Pray for my dad, that God would give him peace in the midst of storms.
–Pray for my mom, as she still has to go to court for sentencing on March first.
–Pray for me, that God would give me wisdom to lead this ministry in my dad’s absence.
–Pray for souls to be saved with the message of creation that is so vital to today’s world.
–Pray for God’s mercy in the appeal.

Second, I would ask you to continue to write letters to Dr. Hovind and let him know how this ministry has impacted you or your church. This would be a great encouragement as he reflects on the past 18 years of ministry.

Third, I ask that you be a part of supporting this ministry.

–You can purchase material including books and DVDs from the ministry in order to strengthen your faith and the faith of others.

–You can copy the material and creation message and spread it to those who do not know or have not heard that the Creator made this world.

–You can give to the ministry. Obviously with the new frontier and financial obligations, we have financial needs. I would ask you to give generously to support the work as you feel led – be that as little as one dollar or more. If each person would be willing to take part in this ministry in just a small way, it would reap huge rewards.

If you do consider donating, or asking others to do the same, so that this work and this ministry can continue serving Jesus Christ our Creator and Redeemer, please send donations to the following:

Creation Science Evangelism
Attention: Legal Fund
29 Cummings Rd
Pensacola, Florida 32503

If you choose to donate online please click here. This link will take you to the donation section of our website.

I want to thank all of those who have prayed continually for this case and for these circumstances. God is in our midst, working in ways that we know not.

Eric Hovind


  1. vangyblue January 20, 2007 1:00 pm Reply

    Hi Eric,

    Thanks for updating us. From what i read…if i understood correctly… I was glad to read that it doesnt appear that he was in trouble with the law for avading personal taxes. It also appears that he only got into trouble for not paying taxes on money given to employees or volunteers of the ministry. And was glad to know that he through very much research over the years and even up to the court case had doen so much to ensure he was following the Law.

    I pray that the sentence will be dismissed or drastically reduced during appeal. I also pray for your mother that she will not be sentenced at all seeing that she did not want anything to do with the financial side of the ministry and this legal fight as i understood from reading the blog.

    I will continue to pray for them (and prison safety) and you and your ministry. I am glad that this doesnt look like your ministry or your family’s witness was damaged.

    There is so much more i would like to say but just know that God turns things out for his good will, and i believe while your father is in jail (and possibly your mom) that God will reach out to those in prison with the gospel.


  2. Stefan January 20, 2007 1:21 pm Reply

    I’m very sorry to hear about your dad, I really hope that everything will be back to normal soon, I will pray for him.
    I know that he is a very famous man in the Faroe Islands, so from all his fans here I want to bring you all our best wishes to you and your family

    Best regards


  3. lajiemarie January 20, 2007 1:52 pm Reply

    Thank you so much for this post!

    My family and I have been following the news on Dr. Hovind, and anxiously awaited the very, very heart-wrenching news yesterday. We are all very grieved, and the news of the length of his sentencing cut our hearts to the core. Dr. Hovind’s ministry has meant so much to my life, and I will never be the same…
    I thank the Lord profusely for allowing me to know the ministry and life of Dr. Hovind. I have learned so much about what it means to live out 1Peter 3:15 thru him and his ministry.

    We are praying for all of you, the ministry, and Dr. Hovind, daily!
    Keep trusting the Lord!

    May the Lord bless, keep, and protect you all.

    “Our Heavenly Father never takes anything from His children unless He means to give them something better.” — George Muller

  4. theguyfromaustralia January 20, 2007 2:28 pm Reply

    G’day the Hovinds and CSE Ministry! Its theguyfromaustralia here, or you can just call me Jonathon. After first hearing the news of your dad and mum being trialed in court I was shocked and dissapointed. I wasn’t quite sure what to think. [EDITED] …


    Not many Aussies have heard of Dr. Kent Hovind. I’m thinking about printing up a T-shirt that says “FREE KENT HOVIND – POLITICAL PRISONER”. If people happen to ask me, then I have another means of leading people to the Lord. Also Australians are too laid back in “Religious/Scientific discussions” and have this pathetic “She’ll be right, mate” attitude and just ‘cruise along’ like nothing happens, but that’s another discussion all together.

    My fiance and I will definately be praying for everyone involved in CSE, and will be praying for the souls your dad will help while he is in there. Remember, the Lord loves you all very much, and we do too, mate!

  5. Second Look January 20, 2007 3:11 pm Reply

    Dr. Hovind’s ministry has inspired me to worship the Creator in spirit and truth. His persecurtion has inspired me to join ranks with him. And so the Kingdom is furthered by his faithfullness. Let us be encouraged from the account of Moses and pharaoh (Exodus – particularly the plague chapters 6 – 12) This “apparent” set back is not what it seems. The pharaohs of this world do not even possess their “supposed” powers. They are merely tools in the hand of our Elohim, who will show His power with great judgments. Pharaoh’s heart must indeed harden before judgment can begin. Pharaoh would have done well to heed Moses’ words and let God’s people go.

    Moses must appeal, appeal, and appeal again. He must trust that the words Yahweh gives him will perform their task. By all these things, Yeshua will make a distinction between His people and pharoah’s people. When Moses confronted pharaoh, the people paid a great price and the sorting began. Some complained. Others must have thought that it was the least they could endure for Moses’ great courage and God’s mercy. I, for one, do not intend to stay in Egypt. I will follow Moses (God’s chosen prophet – Yeshua) out, although the Eyptians will not easily let us go and will fiercely pursue us. Shall Moses be the only free man? Shall we not
    follow him and gain freedom from our bondage as well?

    Dr. Hovind has no doubt counted the cost of following the Messiah and obeying His commandments, and his reward is sure. How long will God’s people halt between two opinions? If we have not decided whom to serve, someday our lack of decision will have decided for us. The sorting continues. I encourage this army of Israelites (those in the family of God, whether they be Jews, Gentiles, Greeks, Men, Women, etc.) to stand firm and hold fast, though countless others will fall all around us. The day of which Shaul spoke in Heb 10:23-25 is fast approaching. Therefore, let us encourage one another. And here is that encouragement (also known
    as truth): All is not well; judgment is coming and the church (so called) will not escape it. Will we stand firm in the day of our trial with or without support? Will we fear man? Dr. Hovind has answered that question for himself. What say you?

    The Barretts
    Mineral, Virginia

  6. Gordon_Comstock January 20, 2007 3:36 pm Reply

    if your letter is any indication, you just took one very meaningful step towards taking the baton from your Dad.
    God bless you. My wife and I will pray for you, as well as your parents. God bless the lot of you.

  7. tasonta January 20, 2007 3:40 pm Reply

    Just a word of encouragement. Kent Hovind’s ministry has had a tremendous impact on our entire family. I can confidently say any one of us would count our selves blessed to be locked up with a HOVIND. During this time we will pray for the prisoners ears to be opened to not miss out on the wealth of wisdom ond knowledge that will be right in front of them, and for Dr. Hovind not to grow weary. We thank the Lord for this ministry and those that will continue in it.

  8. Traskfamily January 20, 2007 3:46 pm Reply

    Hello! I feel like crying and rejoicing all at the same time. My heart goes out to you as I know how much you will miss your family. But the Lord is doing a GOOD thing. I’m sure it has been said a million times, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them that are called according to His purpose.” Also if you are persecuted for His name sake happy are ye! The Lord is working, however right now you might be feeling like you are very hungry and He has just given you some flour. Just wait He will give the rest of the ingredients and you will see that it is for something good. We will continue praying for all involved. We are behind you and have never had a doubt. I see the Lord’s work being done through you. Why else would they be bothering you? We will continue to share your videos/dvds with any one who will watch. We are planning a door to door awareness walk in our surrounding towns. We will go door to door informing the parents and children about what is being taught in their schools. And of course sharing about Christ. Thank you so much for all that you have done! Your work is not in vain.
    May God richly bless you and your family! With all of our love in Christ!

  9. January 20, 2007 3:56 pm Reply

    Dear Eric, Hovind family and CSE team,

    Just to let you know that here in the Netherlands we have been praying for you the last months in this terrible and shocking situation. Yet we know the Lord does know what’s best, even if we don’t understand. We praise the Lord for the good testimony br. Kent has shown in prison so far and some received Christ as personal Saviour! We do trust the Lord will bless him in this prison ministry. That place can be turned from a place of anger and emptiness into a place of joy and hope! Eric, “let no one despise your youth”. Be strong in the Lord and be thankful your dad is still available to give you advice and help.
    We keep on praying for you all and spreading out your dvd’s here in good quantities!
    the Netherlands

  10. JSM0293 January 20, 2007 4:05 pm Reply

    Said this at 5:00am:

    Hey Kent!  I guess it’ll be awhile before you read this, but I am looking forward to buying a few relics of the soon-to-be-bulldozed Dinosaur Adventure Land. They’ll serve as souvenirs to the memory of a man who conned people with fairytales about God, and then tried to place himself above the law, too. Your honesty truly knows no bounds.

    And for the rest of you, it’s about time to ask why all your prayers for this criminal didn’t get answered. Wake up. It’s time to get yourselves unconned. Don’t leave yourselves set up for the next confidence man to make you a mark. THINK.

    Oh come on, you know Dinosaur Adventure Land will still be there after this.  People will probaly be supporting the CSE ministry now more than ever!

    Talk about fairy tails look at what you believe. You have three choices.

    1) God created everthing.   2)Nothing made everthing.   3) We are not here we just think we are.

    If you chose two or three then you need to “THINK”!!!!!

    I’m sorry if you can’t THINK.  The reason CSE is here is to teach people how to THINK!

    God bless the CSE ministry!

  11. joshrjb January 20, 2007 4:17 pm Reply

    I filed for a vendor’s license through the Ohio Department of Taxation. I got the license in the mail yesterday (the 19th), and today (the 20th) received my first return. The crazy thing is the Ohio Department of Taxation must receive it by January 23! Let’s see — mail doesn’t move on Sunday. That means I have two days to get it to them. I wonder if the short response time given to me is because I included a gospel tract with my application?

  12. JSM0293 January 20, 2007 4:22 pm Reply

    I heard the news earlier this morning.  I was not suprised but I was a little angry.

    The government has no right to take money away from anybody!
    Especialy since it wasn’t isn’t and should never be a law.  [EDITED] …

    The Hovinds are both innocent!

  13. LShuck January 20, 2007 5:43 pm Reply

    God Bless Dr Hovind and Jo, you are truly patriots in my eyes, too bad there are so few.

    I think God’s in the knocking people off the fence mode right now, seeing where their allegience truly lies.

    We must remember that EVERY attempt satan makes to silence God’s people,(and that’s truly what is happening here, they don’t want or need the money), the ROAR from the remnant just gets that much louder!!!!

    The march to get Dr Hovinds material out will greatly increase, much more so than if this had never happened. The eyes of the people are slowly widening to the corruption in their country, not that we can do much about it now, except for seeing the need to double and triple our efforts to reach the lost!!!

    Brother Kent got the ball rolling, WE need to keep it rolling by praying for him and supporting his ministry as never before.

    I don’t believe Kent will ever see anywhere near 10 years of the inside of that jail cell.

    God’s gunna ‘BUST HIM OUT’ soon with the voice of the trumpet!!!! The earth’s gunna shake, rattle and roll, we’re all going home and the jail walls will be coming down!!.



  14. EndTimes January 20, 2007 6:26 pm Reply

    Dear Dr. Hovind, family and friends,

    It is with great sadness that I read of the 10 year sentence for a case that defies that lawful jurisprudence of this country. The report on this case by Lindsey Springer in his website is a shocking and outrageous indictment of our fallen judicial system that no longer rules by “the law” but instead utilizes those same rules seen in the times of the inquisition where the evidence did not matter, only the outcome by the magistrate. Certainly, in this case, giving untrue instructions to the jurors is under the purveyance of undue influence of the magistrate and not by rule of the law which he defied in this case. Please read for yourselves the comments by a man knowledgeable of the legal constraints that governs our judicial branch.

    Ignoring Supreme Court directives and making up the law as the trial goes along is by definition “lawlessness” by those sworn by faithful oath to uphold and protect the law. This injustice will be rewarded as will all sin at the presence and at the feet of our Lord and Saviour. May God’s people return to the pure gospel of Christ and preach of His soon return with the energy and tenacity that Dr. Hovind has done his whole life and beware of the grasp of the dragon even in a land of the “free.” (Revelation 18:3)

    Is it lawful to change the law after the closing arguments have already been made? Is it lawful to change any law to serve the purpose of silencing a man for his beliefs? The Hovinds never once committed the crime of “structuring” as defined by US statute which was correctly pointed out by Dr. Hovind’s attorney. They never once withdrew “more than” $10,000 in one business day with the intent of avoiding a report to the IRS. The judge gave a prejudiced definition of “structuring” which is not in the statute in his instructions to the jury. Please see the law itself below. May God have mercy on all that choose to place the sovereignty of God Almighty above all others. May God have mercy on all of us as our country degenerates into the lawlessness to come (Revelation 13:11-18). Even so, Lord, come quickly!!

    [EDITED] …

  15. martinfamof6 January 20, 2007 6:42 pm Reply

    Dr. Hovind,

    So sorry to see you got jail time for this ! Our family loves your stuff. God be with you and keep you in this storm until one day you reach heaven. No more pain, crying, etc. WE LOVE YOU !

    Love and many prayers,
    A family of fans from PA.

  16. firemedicmike11 January 20, 2007 7:04 pm Reply

    I continue to pray for your father, Eric. He has opened my eyes to a whole new world of God’s beautiful Creation. One thing I find hard to believe is that child molesters in Vermont get virtually no prison time for their heinous crimes, while your father gets 10 years. I’m sure this happens in most states as well. Wow, satan is sure working overtime in the US. But we take comfort in knowing that God and his children will be victorious in the end! Praise Jesus!

    My wife and I will be moving to her home town of Brisbane, Australia sometime next year. Ironically, there is a Creation Ministry in Capalaba, which is a suburb in Brisbane, not too far from where we will be living. I believe God is calling me to the land Down Under to spread the Good News of the Gospel and truth of Creation. I would like to keep in contact with your ministry and work with you spreading the Word accross the globe! The ministry in Australia, which I’m sure you’ve heard of is located at Does this sound like something that might work out? Also, do you have the address where I can write Dr. Kent Hovind? Thank you and God Bless.


  17. bettsrk January 20, 2007 8:56 pm Reply

    Dear Hovind family, we love you and feel your pain. Your ministry has been a blessing to our whole family. We enjoy your creation tapes,and watch them often as a family. It’s a lot like reading the Bible,you get something new every time. Our family also listens to wvcy radio and wvcy televison programming . We don’t watch a lot of T.V. except the occasional Christian programming. Thankfully vcy t.v. 30 would show your debates and creation tapes 3 times a week. Then one day you were gone! I wanted to know what happened,so I called the wvcy office and found out that they pulled your program because of your situation with the irs . Wvcy America is known to raise a stink if there is something wrong in the Christian community. So I asked what they were doing, since they are a nation wide program with thousands and thousands of listeners and viewers. To my surprise,they said they thought it would be best to just pull your program and leave it at that. Sounds like they found a servant of The Most High God guilty before the judge could. Just think if they would have asked those thousands to pray or call the appropriate people or send in support. I sent wvcy an email expressing my disgust with them, and of course I added scriptures that showed they not only let the Hovind family down but also violated God’s word many times and in many ways. If anyone reads 1 John 4:7-13 they will see wvcy failed their Christian brothers and sisters. I pray it’s not too late for them to do what they should’ve done in the first place. If everyone who reads this contacts them and has others contact them and asks them to do something on the air like have people call the judge or just make the nation aware of whats happening with brother Hovind, I think there could be an appeal or reduction.

    [EDITED] …

    To the Hovind family, Stand firm in your faith! You have The King of Kings and The Lord Of Lords on your side. When they attack you they attack Him and no one will win against The Lord Jesus Christ ! Remember your job is still the same,it’s just a level higher. In Christ, the Betts family.

  18. JMeert January 20, 2007 9:00 pm Reply

    You know what they say, do the crime, do the time. This is nothing more than a guy breaking the law and getting busted. Clinging to god for salvation won’t excuse the criminal actions of the Hovinds (Kent, Eric, Jo et al.). They all have a record if you look through escambia county. All have flaunted laws and been busted. Kent’s simply earning his just desserts

  19. JMeert January 20, 2007 9:24 pm Reply

    by the way eric, you’ll soon learn, as your father did, that censoring comments (like Hitler and Stalin) does not serve your ministry. Lying for Jesus is never, ever justifiable. It ruined your father’s life and it will doom yours if you don’t repent and follow the law.

    [EDITED](…by paul abramson, not by Eric, if this is of consequence to the poster…)  [The web link was removed from this message.  Most web links, phone numbers, and Emails included in these postings are edited out as this is a forum for comments, pro and con, but not for your free advertising space.  …I also sometimes edit for length and remove curse words, etc.]


    PS: Come to Gainesville, we should debate.

  20. cbgiles January 20, 2007 9:34 pm Reply


    I know you are overwhelmed but you need to start doing the radio show, just like your dad. This show is very important.

    God bless you and may the Holy Spirit be in you and yours and everyone you deal with from this point on. May the Holy Spirit be in the courts and appeals. The LORD will provide. The LORD is coming!

    Brent Giles Hendersonville, NC
    [email protected]

  21. furious1 January 20, 2007 9:35 pm Reply

    I cannot begin to explain how I feel now or how I have felt as I have grappled with what is going on. I have read the childish, hurtful ravings of our “brothers and sisters in Christ” and have come away ashamed. Just because the majority pays an illegal tax doesn’t not give us the right to judge someone who doesn’t. To paraphrase, Judge not lest ye be judge and with the same measure of judgement you will also be judged. I will continue to pray and right. I have never been locked up and the thought of it gives me pause, but I will not commit moral torpetude against Dr. Hovind and his ministry because he has moved into a different phase of God’s plan where he is incarcerated. I love this ministry.

  22. cbgiles January 20, 2007 10:02 pm Reply


    Let me know if I can help.  I’m saved.
    I’m a graphic designer.  Comic book artist.  Hand-Drawn portraits.
    T-shirt designer(I have an idea for a shirt that’ll say UNLEASH DR. DINO) It has original grqaphics. Let me know and I’ll email it to you.

    email me if I can help in the ministry…my price is good since I am offering it to you for free (choke on that irs).
    [email protected]
    Brent  -  FIG Services, Inc.

  23. whovian222 January 20, 2007 10:12 pm Reply

    1) God created everthing. 2)Nothing made everthing. 3) We are not here we just think we are.

    If you chose two or three then you need to “THINK”!!!!!

    Or I could believe what you believe which is 1)God made Everything 2)Nothing made God! Rinse and repeat!

  24. JR Turner January 20, 2007 10:26 pm Reply

    See what you can find if you are inclined to look! As Kent says, “Chew the meat and spit out the bones.”

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    Lucille Offiler Beats IRS – Florida Judge Cancels IRS Lien
    December 01, 2006

    [EDITED] …

    To refresh your memory, Lucille sued in Florida Circuit Court to require the IRS to show cause why their fraudulent Notice of Federal Tax Lien (NFTL) should not be canceled because of fraud.
    [EDITED] …

    True to form, the Department of Justice attempted to remove the case to U.S. District Court. The state court judge ignored the ploy and ordered the IRS to show cause. The IRS failed to show up. The judge issued the order to cancel the NFTL. Now the NFTL no longer exists, and neither does the associated lien.

    [EDITED] …

    N ow, I have attached her court papers, but you should go read them on line for yourself, just to prove to yourself that they exist:

    Click on the link Osceola Recorders Office, then click on “guest access”, then in the left column, then select “document search”, then again in the left column, select “name”, and then type in “Offiler, Lucille”, and click on “go”. Then click on item #5, and on the next screen in the left column, click on “image” and it will bring up the recorded document.

    [EDITED] …

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt … all individual in-come tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government”
    -Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “The Founding Fathers of this great land had no difficulty whatsoever understanding the agenda of bankers, and they frequently referred to them and their kind as, quote, ‘friends of paper money. They hated the Bank of England, in particular, and felt that even were we successful in winning our independence from England and King George, we could never truly be a nation of freemen, unless we had an honest money system. Through ignorance, but moreover, because of apathy, a small, but wealthy, clique of power brokers have robbed us of our Rights and Liberties, and we are being raped of our wealth. We are paying the price for the near-comatose levels of complacency by our parents, and only God knows what might become of our children, should we not work diligently to shake this country from its slumber! Many a nation has lost its freedom at the end of a gun barrel, but here in America, we just decided to hand it over voluntarily. Worse yet, we paid for the tyranny and usurpation out of our own pockets with “voluntary” tax contributions and the use of a debt-laden fiat currency!”.
    -Peter Kershaw, author of the 1994 booklet “Economic Solutions”

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “Whenever the legislators endeavor to take and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience…”
    John Locke, 1690

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “Our federal tax system is, in short, utterly impossible, utterly unjust and completely counterproductive [it] reeks with injustice and is fundamentally un-American… it has earned a rebellion and it’s time we rebelled”.
    -President Ronald Reagan, May 1983, Williamsburg, VA

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    From the Christian standpoint, do you realize that without the income tax thousands of mothers could leave the workforce and work from home or home school producing intelligent, moral children.
    Sherry Peel Jackson, C.P.A. Certified Fraud Examiner / Former IRS Revenue Agent

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    As you can see from the Lucille Offiler case above, it is just a game my brother’s and sister’s.

    Kent and Jo Hovind are INNOCENT!!! Putting innocent people in jail serves no purpose. How much stock in U.S. Prisons does your judge or attorney have???

  25. josephericlopez January 20, 2007 10:35 pm Reply

    I am glad to see that you are doing the speaking engagements. I will keep CSE ministry and Kent Hovind in prayer. This is really something to pray about, as this is a much needed ministry. Seeing this ministry was the event that caused me to surrender to preach when I was 24. Now I think the Lord would have me to go into a different direction in the minstry, but this ministry is what God used to point me into that direction.

    God bless the CSE Ministry.

  26. webley72 January 20, 2007 10:36 pm Reply

    It was so hard to hear the news of the Hovind family being seperated from each other. People that love the Lord and have dedicated their life to his work and saving the very people who hate him. I have seen so much fruit from their ministry. This ministry has helped lead my whole entire family to God. My three children love God and have so much joy that I never even knew until I was saved as an adult. I shared the CSE tapes with my friend who was on drugs and was losing her son. It was like she woke up out of a deep sleep. She immidiately began reading her Bible and thanking God for another chance at life. She now has her son, and wonderful husband and two beautiful daughters (miraculously) and they all love God. I am so thankful for this ministry, for the Hovind family and for every trial they go through for God. Thank you for standing up when most of America is sitting down. Thank you Eric for continuing your dad’s work. Someone said our prayers were not answered, we were praying for God’s will and that is just what we will get. Let’s keep saving souls.
    The Webley’s

  27. Brother Dean January 20, 2007 10:59 pm Reply

    I do believe Brother Hovind is in the center of God’s will and will be greatly used by Him now and in the future. His work is to be faithful unto death and ours is to pray for him and petition the White House for full pardon which only God can force this president to give.

  28. americanholley January 20, 2007 11:34 pm Reply

    My heart sank into the pit of my stomach as I read your blog, Eric. My husband and I have prayed for all of you since your parents’ arrests, and I was praying 9AM Friday morning as well. I don’t know what to say except that I pray the Lord will be your comfort. I’m so proud of the way your father has continued to serve the Lord while incarcerated, and I know that the Lord will sustain him during this time and the days ahead. Perhaps in your next blog, will you address where we can send letters to Dr. Hovind and will you inform us where he will be and if he can have visitors? Thank you.

    Many thanks to you and the CSE ministry for touching countless lives including my own. We will continue to support you all through these difficult days. God will supply all your needs….

    Much love,
    Michelle & Dave Holley

  29. bbitmaster January 21, 2007 12:03 am Reply

    Sounds like someone finally won Dr. Hovind’s $250,000 challenge, and more, and no-one even had to prove evolution. Even when they’re wrong, the IRS wins every time :-) (trying to make a joke of a bad situation, so laugh)

    In all seriousness, I an appalled at what has taken place here. Dr. Hovind had a great work. I have never seen a man get attacked so much from atheists, scientists, the government, and even fellow Christians, simply for believing the Bible, and for believing that the church should not be taxable as our Constitution says.

    Our church has been, and will continue to pray for Dr. Hovind. I hope to see people saved through his jail ministry, and I am specifically praying that Hovind will not see this as a bad time, but will instead be comforted, and see this as an opportunity to grow closer to God than he has ever been.

  30. Rochnowski January 21, 2007 12:04 am Reply

    Dear Kent, Jo, Kent Andrew, Eric, Marlissa & Families,

    We have been praying for you for years, since we were blessed to first hear this godly message about our great God’s creation vs. evolution, dinosaurs, etc… We will share your work more and more – as what freedom we have exists!

    We thank the Lord Jesus Christ for you daily, and will continue! God’s judgment is definitely going to take place, but we will also pray for repentance to those who instigated this mess, and those in the courts who made decisions and judgments contrary to the truth.

    The heavy hearts and tears will be wiped away soon…

    God Bless! Love in Christ Jesus!

  31. GoldWings January 21, 2007 3:03 am Reply

    Dear Eric,

    I salute you for what your doing to continue this ministry!! After years of study, I understand the income tax fraud that dominates todays courtroom. If Judge Rogers were to have aquitted Dr Hovind, she would have cut a deep wound in the promoters of the Income Tax hoax. She would have gone against the many judges before her that pay no regard to the constitution and rule in favor of the IRS, and then use those rulings to prevent those who actually study the law from defending themselves.

    I commend you on doing a very brave thing in continuing the ministry. Spreading Gods word is the most important thing in todays world. I hurt inside because of what Dr Hovind is going through, but I have comfort in knowing my God is bigger than the problem, smarter than the problem, and brings us through the problem. Daniel was thrown into the lions den, but with God by his side, even the lions could not stop Daniel.

    All I can say in closing is…..I am SO GLAD I am not in Judge Caseys shoes, or in prosecutor Michelle Heldmyer’s shoes. I dont think I could survive another hour in their place, because I know God does not let anyone get away with persecuting his servants; and if I didn’t recieve my punishment in this life, the next one is something so horrid, so agonizing, that Jesus himself had to come down, suffer though endless misery to rescue us from it. I also know that my God is a God of forgiveness. Saul of Tarsus pursecuted Christians and eventually became the apostle Paul, who preached the word of God tirelessly.

    Judge Casey was right about one thing. This case isn’t about religion. Its about that large paycheck, glorifying herself, defending the system, and being accepted by the perpetrators. If she didn’t defend the fraud, that endangers the money supply. I know this because I have 3 attorneys in my family. When the income tax subject comes up, logic goes out the door and ignorant defense comes in.

    I’m praying for you Eric, Dr. Hovind and Mrs. Hovind. Your going up against the monsters that indoctrinate the public to make evolution and the income tax a duty to defend. Remember one thing: God loves you, Jesus came here to die for you, and with a love like that……what do you have to fear? If you ever get a chance to look at some astronomy books, stare at a galaxy, or a comet, or a supernova and ask: If God can create, name, and take care of the stars, what makes me think that he will forsake me?

    Yours in Christ

  32. LTCJeffWhite January 21, 2007 7:39 am Reply

    Dear Hovinds,

    We were, no use pretending otherwise – we were devastated to hear of this sentence. As a sometime judge of the law in our nonjudicial system of military punishment – where I learned the basics of how to properly warrant searches, handle evidence, prepare and conduct cases, determine guilt or innocense and finally, to weigh matters in extenuation and mitigation – and ultimately to pronounce sentence – I find it appalling, based on what I know of Bro Kent, and the ministry, to read all about the many irregular and seemingly capricious applications of “law” to this situation.

    Arbitrary seizures of property, changing determinations of meaning, the moving target of a law which is seemingly not knowable — all seem to indicate that you simply owe whatever they say you owe; must do whatever they say you must do; and seeingly at all hazards, you must never anger these people in any way. This sounds to me just like a tyranny.

    But you are the right man for this job, I think, Bro Hovind. Sad to say. I am convinced that if there were anything else going on, any other exploitable weaknesses in your life – that the world would long ago have heard of it. This is such an encouragement to so many people. The words of the ranter above are so pitiful by comparison to the clear testimony of integrity that has been established by this ministry, and by the life of Kent Hovind. I want that man to come to my home and meet my wife and children – for by the grace of God, we are also “relics” of your ministry! You never saved anybody’s souls – that is clearly all God’s work – but you have certainly won a few to Him by your tireless and focused efforts through the years, empowered by His word, and His grace. Such men as “JSM0293″ will certainly not have the excuse that they “never heard,” and this is thanks to you — the best friend a reprobate like that ever had — not afraid of his hatred, but ever willing to explain simply about God, his Creator, and the source of every good and perfect gift.

    Who knows how many people have decided to redouble their efforts at evangelism using the simple powerful truths of the creation event, and good science, due to this very high profile action of the Devil against you. I know I have given the presentations myself on three occasions – to small but increasing crowds, and I thank you for the countless hours of labor that went into the production of so many imaginative and yes, THOUGHT-PROVOKING slides and materials. The man writing above has become so offended, so angry, so vindictive and mean — and maybe we could try not to make such fun of his ridiculous beliefs. Perhaps sarcasm is a stumbling block. But perhaps that ridicule, that pointing to the indefensible notion of life emerging from non-life, matter from nothing, energy, time and information from non-energy, non-time, and non-information — perhaps the ridicule of that is what it needs MOST. It sounds so silly when a man dismisses out of hand the possibility of Divine initiation of all we see — Perhaps making them mad, so that they will bluster in this hate-filled way is ordained of God to show everyone ELSE just what animates the most arduous opponents of Divine special creation.

    I don’t know.

    One thing is certain, at least to me, and hopefully this is worth noting here. If there is anything of a spirit of pride in your ministry, you have already learned just how carefully you may walk – and a better way, perhaps, to avoid needless provcation while you continue to preach the truth in love, and in far greater vulnerability. I do not know. I do know this: Dr. Kent Hovind is a braver and a better man than I am. He’s no God, but he has certainly shown us all an outstanding example of what courage and commitment can be – in this troubled age. His case has also shown us what some other so-called Christians can be, and can do.

    The fervent hope and prayer of the White family, in Virginia, is that justice would be done for Kent and Jo Hovind. Justice is all they really want or need. But we do not hope for justice for those filled with hatred as this person posting above. For them – justice would be too harsh. We hope that they will soon see how evil they have been, how filled with hatred, and just how in need of the Saviour. I would love to take a Bible, and to show them from its sacred text just how they might be saved – for the pathway is not unclear, or obstructed – but by their own arrogance, and blindness.

    For the law they hate is just, and equal, and from God. And the real Judge of that Law sees all, knows all the internet aliases, and the wicked hearts of the hypocrites. And the real Judge will never need to resort to tricks, or change His rules, or deal dishonestly. He knows that all have sinned, that the wages of that sin is death, paid the price on the cross as a substitute for their just sentence of death – and is waiting to give them the free gift of forgiveness and salvation!

    We love you, Brother Kent – and your wonderful family, which has proven such a great reflection of a loving, and caring father and husband. We are deeply moved by your sacrifice and your struggle, and we will soon see exactly how and where it moves each one of us!

    In Christ,
    Jeff, Jocelyn, Jane, Janine, and Jedidiah White

  33. julia January 21, 2007 8:06 am Reply

    I admire Dr. Kent Hovind and all the friendly Christian bloggers here. Mr. Jeff White, just for your info, Noah was the leader of 8 God-fearing people who were saved in the Great Flood. Noah was NOT A FAILURE. He started a generation of God-fearing people. [EDITED] …

    As for Dr. Kent Hovind, your seminar series will reach all nations worldwide regardless of you being incarcerated. But the prisoners in Pensacola have no means to listen to your seminar. And God is so good and He wants all men to be saved, including all prisoners. So Bro. Kent, I expect a multitude of saved souls in the prison where destiny has sent you.

    I expect to see you face to face in Heaven, God willing.

    To God be the glory.   Julia

  34. iago9067 January 21, 2007 8:55 am Reply

    We are still praying for you at CSE . Very sad to hear the news about your dad , we’ll keep praying for his appeals. The Lord works in mysterious ways!! GOD bless you all !!!!

    Still praying iago

  35. Jason January 21, 2007 12:00 pm Reply

    Hi Kent, Eric & Family,

    My family & I are all saddened by the news (words cannot express), we will continue to petition God and those who love God to work towards a swift & righteous end to your troubles.

    Although I’m sure many who hate God will now be celebrating at your sentence, I would like to make this observation based upon the many letters of support found on this site;

    God has blessed you, and like His love, the Sun is always shining upon those who Love & Support your ministry.

    Your Ministry is world wide, in it’s influence, & so therefore is the support for you.

    We would encourage you to stand strong, Biblically speaking this sort of thing happens to all the best people :)

    Love Jason xXx

    The Guy from England.

  36. spartanrider January 21, 2007 12:00 pm Reply

    Sending your friends to is like leading lambs to the slaughter. Lindsey K. Springer is a whack job. How anyone could use this slimeball in a trial is beyond me. This charlatan at any given time has cases pending in courts all across the nation. He is currently trying to escape penalties and taxes imposed from 1990-1995. Springer’s third appeal and I quote the court is a “hodgepodge of unsupported assertions,irrelevant platitudes,and legalistic gibberish.” This man fronts for affinity scam groups. These people target the unsophisticated with securities fraud.Leave your name or e-mail there and you will eventually be contacted with a can’t miss investment oportunity. Prime bank scams seem to be a favorite. Whan they get caught they argue that they to were the victims of fraud. I’m sure Mr. Springer remembers Breaker Bondage Ministries. He was a partner with the Infinity Group. These finacial geniuses manage to scam millions of dollars from the unwary. You don’t have to be a finacial genius to know that buying a face value $1,000 bond from the Marietta and Georgia Railway issued in 1889 for $302,000 and carrying on your books at a value of $107,000,000 is idiotic at best,criminal at worst.The railroad that issued the bond went bankrupt in 1895 and out of business in 1896. Actual value of the bond $80 to $100 as a collectible. The following statements are from a blogger on th e Quatloos site which seeks to eexpose these frauds.”Lindsey Springer is the “teflon” TP. He’s the head cheerleader and IRS basher, but when the arrests, fines and troubles come, Lindsey seems to fade into the background and avoid the sanctions. He’s badly hurt several people I know who have followed his advice. He acted as the ghostwriter for a client of mine in a Tax Court case. The issue was how much income client had from the sale of securities. Lindsey’s filings cited the usually litany of TP nonsense, but all he really needed to do was claim the basis in the securities–the basis was substantial–and client would have owed less that one-sixth the amount that was eventually assessed by the Tax Court.

    Lindsey is a master at pushing the Born Again buttons and getting “donations” for his cause du jour. I have never seen a slimier snake oil salesman. He will take an elderly person’s last dime in the morning and go play golf in the afternoon.”

  37. truedino January 21, 2007 1:01 pm Reply


    I have been following things since October. And I know the Lord will use Dr Hovind’s excellent seminar even if he can’t physically be out there presenting it. Hopefully it will only be for a short time. IMO 10 years is far to excessive and should be appealed but that is just my opinion. What I have really found difficult is understanding what the central issue is that is being contested. Conspiracy videos, cseblog postings and the material at doesn’t seem to be real clear on things. Could someone perhaps even Dr Hovind or Mr. Eric Hovind condense the issue down to its essence and post it here?

    Now, “furious1″ has made the comment that “the majority pay an illegal tax”.

    Now does “furious1″ mean that paying corporate or personal income tax to pay for public services is illegal? Who should pay for public services or how should public services be paid? Am I missing something here? I don’t want to misunderstand.

    Now, if you are an unregistered church or ministry in the USA are the leaders or ministers not subject to tax on gifts from its members but would be subject to tax if they were selling products and making a profit on them? Could some one clarify that is in the know. I’m from Canada and am not familiar with USA law with regards to charities and unregistered ministries. Are ministers and workers in registered and unregistered ministries liable to pay personal tax on certain types of remuneration they receive from these ministries?

    If Dr Hovind has been led astray by what ever means or counsel I am still behind him no matter what. Grace is grace and all of us in Christ have the freedom to fail and get back up again. But it would be nice to clearly understand the issues at hand.

    Looking for the Blessed Hope

  38. jasonallen347 January 21, 2007 1:26 pm Reply

    To my buddies, The Hovinds,

    My name is Jason Allen. I lived in Pensacola, FL for almost 5 years. I learned of your amazing teachings and then came to help out with the ministry any way I could. I helped, somewhat, build building 5 and a couple other attractions there. Your father is possibly the kindest man I have ever met. I still watch the seminars while working around the house so when I get into a discussion with some unbeliever I am “ready in season and out of season”. It hurt me to my core to hear that a corrupt gov’t has sentenced an innocent man to federal prison. I myself have read the tax laws and find no place where the 16th Ammendment gives new taxation powers to the gov’t. It clearly defines “employees” with no mention of the average person trading their labor for just compensation.

    I have to ask, did the judge and the jury disregard those facts? Were they unlearned about what exactly the law is? Did they not ask to see the law from the IRS own documents, the internal revenue code? If these are unavailable, then how was he able to be convicted? Was this truly a jury of his peers that does not take into account the actual law? Who does not ask to see the law? Who do not know how to think critically? Was the question posed by the prosecution, “Is this man guilty or not guilty of failing to withhold?” This assumes that he was liable to withhold in the first place. It is a loaded question; “a soviet style indoctrination question” to quote Dr. Hovind in Seminar Part 4.

    I encourage all find the law that states that a person is required to pay the 1040 or 1099 income tax in the IRC. It is not there. or

    to see for yourself.

    I am praying for your entire family. I will send what I can as soon as I can to show my support. Please, as soon as you know where to send it, post the address for us to write to Dr. Hovind.

    Appeal, Appeal, Appeal, Appeal, Appeal, Appeal, Appeal, Appeal!

    Jason T. Allen

    PS. If you want to find out more about the income tax feel free to email me.
    [EDITED] …

  39. fuzzi January 21, 2007 3:21 pm Reply

    Kent and Jo, and Eric:

    My heart is grieved over this entire farce.

    This morning part of the message was about Romans 8:28, how it is easy to preach, but so difficult to live. I have a brother who was wrongfully convicted and is a ‘guest’ of the BOP. He has used what God has given him, time in prison, and tried to reach others for Christ, and help his brothers in Christ, who are also imprisoned, to grow.

    Was it fair that my brother was imprisoned falsely? No, but God is good, and has used the situation for His glory. Evil has been used for good.

    Kent, while our prayers for your release have not yet been answered as we would wish, I know God has answered all our prayers, in His way, for His purpose. If you wind up in NC, I’ll try to come visit you.

    Eric, we’ll be praying for you, with your new responsibilities.

    Jo, we’ll also be praying for you to not be incarcerated. May it be the Lord’s will for you to stay out of prison.

    Lastly, in reading this blog and the various replies, I am reminded of God’s word:

    “Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
    He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
    He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.” (Matthew 27:41-43)

    Jesus Christ was innocent, but those who thought they were so much better than a common criminal loved to rail and accuse Him, to mock Him in His agony. While you being in prison isn’t the same as what our Lord suffered, the response of self-righteous types is typical both then and now. I’ll pray for them too.

    God bless you, Kent, and all.


  40. Tanya January 21, 2007 3:46 pm Reply

    I can’t explain how sad, mad, and angry I was all at the same time, when I just heard that Dr. Hovind is now prisoned for 10 years. The government should have no business going into his personal beliefs! Even if so, isn’t 10 years too much just for taxes?
    Anyways, what has happened cannot be changed. Only our prayers can do a big deal of things that we don’t even know of. God knows the reason why He allowed this to happen to His people. All we can do is pray and support them. Everything else is to be put into God’s hands.

    Dr. Hovind, Mrs. Hovind, Eric, Kent Andrew, Marlissa, and all your families: WE PRAY FOR YOU! DON’T FORGET THAT WE ALL LOVE YOU VERY MUCH!!!

    GOD BLESS YOU!!! You can’t even imagine what you have done to the lives of many all around the world, including myself. I believe God will soon bring forth your righteousness as the light, and your justice as the noonday.

    Tatyana Voronina

  41. prewrathx January 21, 2007 4:31 pm Reply

    Sweeney said this at 7:36pm:

    “Are you asking us to pay Hovind’s fines?”

    First of all Dr. Hovind has done more for the Lord in getting the gospel out then most christians could ever dream about. And now that this obvious unjustly ruling has been passed down, the concern on Erics part is not in regards to the fines but for all the people like yourself who still need to be reached with the gospel of Jesus Christ’ death on the Cross. It’s clear that The IRS and Mr.Rogers were uncomfortable with the impact that Dr. Hovind was having on their religion(evolution) and had to do what was in their power to see to it he was stopped. If Dr. Hovind was money hungry or greedy then it would show in his personal assets. He doesn’t drive a fancy car or live in an expensive house. He’s not concerned with material things like most of us are. He’s concerned with one thing, spreading the TRUTH! And that is exactly his problem.I thank God for everything that Dr. Hovind has done and I will pray for him and his family continually. And I’m sure his son(Eric) will do a wonderful job as well. Be well and stay strong to everyone at CSE

    In Jesus Name


  42. jamesandveybe January 21, 2007 5:02 pm Reply


    In short…

    GO AND PREACH! You have been an evangelist for some years now, a minister of Dr. Hovind’s ministry for even longer. There is little more to learn before you GO. You already know the material. You know what works against the anti-God arguments. Study up on everything your dad can tell you right now, and review what he already has. Be with your mother until sentencing. You can learn much from her right now. Then, GO.

    Never relinquish preaching the Gospel for the sake of teaching. If you have to choose, do what your dad did… he witnessed. Do not get proud. Pride was what got Satan booted. When not addressing or answering, keep your nose in the Bible and with your loved ones. I do not know you enough to judge if the scheduling your father kept is doable for you. You and he are the best judges of that. Do not burn. You can push without burning.

    GO AND PREACH! You have your commission as we all do from the Bible, but your tools and mentor are second to none I know on this earth regarding the Bible and creation. Use all of your energies, like Paul, for God’s glory. And remember that there is no half-way with Him.


    See you in Anchorage, or sooner if we see an addition to the itinerary. Give your mom and sister hugs from us, your extended family. Tell them they obviously are not forgotten, and neither is CSE. Until your father is back with us, he has his ministry AND YOU HAVE YOURS.


  43. The Welders Wife January 21, 2007 5:07 pm Reply

    The battle belongs to the LORD! I have learned to say : ‘I might not like what’s going on, but I will trust God’s wisdom in allowing things to be the way they are.’

    This whole thing has motivated me to work harder for the LORD than I ever have before.

    We need to pray for our enemies for their salvation. That’s the first thing Jesus did after they nailed Him to the cross.

    Eric, until your latest post, I never understood what Jesus ment when He said in Luke 18:8 “When the Son of Man comes will He find faith on the earth?” The verses just before that are the story of a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. There was a widow in that city who came to him asking for justice from her adversary. At first he ignored her, but she kept harassing him, so he finally gave in & avenged her. & Then Jesus said, “now shall not God bring about justice for His elect, who cry to Him day & night, & will He delay long over them? I tell you that He will bring about justice for them speedily. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” We need to keep praying & not loose heart. Out of all those in the Creation Science Movement, your Dad has had more impact on people’s lives for good than anybody else I know of.

    & its really hard to forgive the members in the body of Christ who beat you up. [I’ve been there & been beat up!] You’ve got to focus on them as being younger siblings who still have a great deal of growing spiritually to do. If you keep this in mind, it will be a lot easier to pray for them. May the LORD continually fill all of you with His grace.

    He defeated the mighty Nephelim with a wooden box
    built by some humble farmers.
    He confounds the ungodly with simple things!
    His ways are past finding out.

    He defeated the terrible curse
    With a Lamb upon a stick
    Secured to a stick by some nails.
    He confounds the schemes of darkness with simple things!
    His ways are past finding out.

    He will defeat all the world’s military might
    With a single Rider
    upon a white horse!
    He confounds arrogant fools with simple things!
    His ways are past finding out.

    Our DAD is faithful. Hang in there!
    Jude 3…
    Pam Elder.

  44. jamesandveybe January 21, 2007 5:19 pm Reply

    Dr. Hovind,

    I just wrote a note to Eric regarding the recent knowledge of man’s finite decision and God’s reassignment of personnel. You have been praying that God would put you where He wanted you, even though you wanted to be relaxing in your living room. You have been sent to the mission field for several years, one so different form the one you knew, that your strategies and means will require you to grow. Yes, you need to grow into what the Lord wants you there for. How many men have been saved because you were sent to prison? How many of us wish to be in close quarters with a man of calling like you… or Moses… or Elijah? Now don’t get proud. Remember, if God was through with you, he would have just taken you home. You obviously have growing to do.

    Would you have ever chosen this new mission field? No, and I would not choose to leave 65-degree weather and live in a jungle with spiders bigger than a T-Rex toenail. But surely, I would have much to learn and much to trust the Lord over if I, like Jonah, said ‘no’ to Him, only to find myself in Ninevah ANYWAY by God’s hand of means, likely most uncomfortable and offensive in the extreme. This is a short note of encouragement and challenge. You have much around you, for the next long while, that you would not subject your kid’s senses to. Yet, this is where He wants you, for whatever reason that he deems a good one.

    I appreciate your class in offering to take Jo’s sentence with yours. That was something I will not forget about the trial. I will read about the case this week.

    What I told Eric was to finish up preparations, stay with his mom until sentencing, and then go preach. I closed that note the way I will close this one. For now, he has his ministry and you have yours. I say to you both, PREACH!

    In Him,

    James and Veybe Davis
    Camano Island, WA
    [EDITED] …

  45. JSM0293 January 21, 2007 6:41 pm Reply

    LTCJeffWhite stated that “such men as JSM0293 will not have the excuse they have “never heard” ”


    I will not need an excuse at all!

    I am a saved believer!

    I don’t know how you got the idea I was against Dr. Hovind or any other christian.

    If you are talking about the Dinosaur Adventure Land being bulldozed,

    I was responding to a blogger whose user name was “HEYKENT” I was in a hurry typing so it might have looked like that is all what I said. :-(

    I just stated what he said then I replied. But anything other than that I don’t know what you are talking about.

    I just wanted to clear anything up that may start something.

    God bless,

  46. EndTimes January 21, 2007 7:49 pm Reply

    I am an ardent supporter of Dr. Hovind’s ministry and I am truly grieved by his current sentence. However, I am today most unhappy with some of the statements made by Lindsey Springer about this case. He stated specifically:

    “The most important error was that at all times the regulation says “more than $10,000.00” while the Governments theory only proved “less than $10,000.00.”

    Armed with this information, I joined in on an anti-Hovind website that was basking in the demise of their most hated creationist and I put forth this argument as given above by Lindsey Springer. However, instead of blasting them out of the water, they quite correctly pointed me to the statute and I subsequently found the definition of “structuring” from the regulation itself. From Lindsey Springer’s assessment and comments, I assumed that Judge Casey Rodgers had changed the actual law. But in stated fact, by the defined statute listed below, it is clearly evidenced that the precise definition given by Judge Rodgers is indeed how the Federal Code is written already.

    The purpose of writing this little commentary is to state that I am not happy at all with the appearances of judicial malfeasance proclaimed by Lindsey Springer in regards to the structuring charges, which is either disingenuous or, at the minimum, uninformed and biased against the reality of the law which is already in effect. The law clearly spells out what structuring is as much as I may dislike that notion and Judge Casey Rodgers did not change it as implied by Lindsey Springer!!

    I have no comment about procedural matters of Judge Rogers and it is my hope that she indeed has made procedural mistakes that will be reversed on appeal. But until then, I will never without my own diligent research venture a Lindsey Springer opinion even in casting an element of doubt of the verdict on an anti-Hovind blog seeing that my arguments fell short and I was subject to the ridicule of not being able to defend my strong statements that I have ventured based completely on the comments of Lindsey Springer. I would highly recommend that no one place their life, fortune and family in the trust of this man’s opinions without looking into many other aspects of his claims. I have also included the documents for Lindsey Springer’s own court case where many of his current PRA theories failed despite some prior successes he had in other cases. Since the government holds all of the cards and writes all the rules, overcoming any temporary impediments to the PRA argument will soon collapse of its own accord. As we can see for Dr. Hovind, the PRA argument already has proven ineffective. All potential tax protestor arguments will eventually fail for the simple fact that the government controls the deck and deals as they see fit at all times. How can we fight against a stacked deck? The only way is to not play their game and simply preach the gospel. There is nothing that can succeed against it by the promise of our Lord. (Matthew 16:18)

    May the Lord grant us all the wisdom, knowledge and understanding needed to serve Him and survive in this current judicial system which no longer honors the principles of the Bible nor even at times the constitution.

    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 31, Volume 1]
    [Revised as of July 1, 2004]
    From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
    [CITE: 31CFR103.11]

    [Page 362-369]



    TRANSACTIONS–Table of Contents

    Subpart A_Definitions

    Sec. 103.11 Meaning of terms.

    (gg) Structure (structuring). For purposes of section 103.53, a
    person structures a transaction if that person, acting alone, or in
    conjunction with, or on behalf of, other persons, conducts or attempts
    to conduct one or more transactions in currency, in any amount, at one
    or more financial institutions, on one or more days, in any manner, for
    the purpose of evading the reporting requirements under section 103.22
    of this part. “In any manner” includes, but is not limited to, the
    breaking down of a single sum of currency exceeding $10,000 into smaller sums, including sums at or below $10,000, or the conduct of a
    transaction, or series of currency transactions, including transactions
    at or below $10,000. The transaction or transactions need not exceed the $10,000 reporting threshold at any single financial institution on any single day in order to constitute structuring within the meaning of this definition.

  47. n6days January 21, 2007 8:12 pm Reply

    Complete Hovind Family

    We love you! The most powerful way we can demonstrate this to you is by lifting all of you before our King. Oh how humorous it strikes me, that these scoffers truly believe that our prayers have not been answered because of this retarded ruling. How true it is that the carnal mind cannot possibly conceive the
    things of God. Brother, despite where you are this very minute, the greatest comfort we all have is in the fact that our LORD is in sovereign control. His grace is indeed sufficient!


    There are countless things that anger us about this injustice, this escalated even higher after further study into your situation. The indictment, which is ridiculous in all counts, is charging the STRAWMAN while the NATURAL PERSON was tried and now sits in prison. Justice is coming.

    We love you, and know that there are good judges in the system. God will send one your way. Because He is our Buckler and Shield!

    Kent,,,,,,,take a deep breath and listen carefully, for this is wisdom. When you are free and this is finally over, do not seek vengeance. Our Lord Jesus Christ is greater than this situation, decide to forgive them in your heart and you know as well as I do that God will give you love for them. Loving them is your only debt. Vengeance belongs to God. Despite their power and authority on earth, if they choose to continue this lifestyle, they will be judged by the only name given on earth by which we must be saved, Jesus Christ Our Lord…Amen

    In the surety of His blood,


    PS: I had mailed you a book with “blank pages”, just recently, hope Bill brings a smile to your face.

  48. robgentner January 21, 2007 9:25 pm Reply

    I viewed the 6 DVDs for the first time, last week. Yes, I learnt a lot of interesting things. I had never heard of Dr Hovind or his Creation Science Evangelism Ministry before. While doing internet research about him and his ministry, I found out about his problems and the unjust sentence. I won’t “judge him”, nor should you! but I would also caution you to not worship false gods and remember that anyone smart enough to come up with the theories he has and make large amounts of money teaching about them, should be smart enough to give the government their share. Additionally, many thing that experts represent as facts are nothing more or less than their theory based on their agenda and belief system. This short story serves to illutrate that point: a psychologist, an engineer and a theologian were hunting in the wilderness of northern Canada. Suddenly, the temperature dropped and a furious snowstorm was upon them. They came across an isolated cabin, far removed from any town. The hunters had heard that the locals in the area were
    quite hospitable, so they knocked on the door to ask permission to rest.
    No one answered their knocks, but they discovered the cabin was unlocked and they entered. It was a simple place … 2 rooms with a minimum of furniture and household equipment. Nothing was unusual about the cabin except the stove. It was large, pot-bellied, and made of cast-iron. What was strange about it was its location … it was suspended in midair by wires attached to the ceiling beams.
    “Fascinating,” said the psychologist. “It is obvious that this lonely trapper, isolated from humanity, has elevated this stove so that he can curl up under it and vicariously experience a return to the womb.”
    “Nonsense!” replied the engineer. “The man is practicing the laws of thermodynamics. By elevatinghis stove, he has discovered a way to distribute heatmore evenly throughout the cabin.”
    “With all due respect,” interrupted the theologian,”I’m sure that hanging his stove from the ceiling has religious meaning. Fire LIFTED UP has been a religious symbol for centuries.”
    The three debated the point for several hours without resolving the issue. When the trapper finally returned, they immediately asked him why he had hung his heavy pot-bellied stove from the ceiling.
    His answer was succinct. “Had plenty of wire, not much stove pipe.”
    May the True God Bless all of us, and the Hovind family.

  49. infowarrior January 21, 2007 9:28 pm Reply

    I was just wondering if someone can please explain to me why he was guilty, and what about this employee related tax thing, because i know that is what he was sentenced for. I know that the Federal Income Tax is illegal and i know about 5013c. If somebody could please explain to me why they found him guilty exactly, what really is the law, and what was Kent Hovind’s defense? thank you, Ben

  50. furious1 January 22, 2007 12:58 am Reply


    I was referring to taxing a church when it is not legal and to the income tax that was never ratified. In regards to public facilities, I find it silly to say, “Okay, we are going to build a $20 million facility that you all can use and will be free but we are going to tax you in order to pay for it.” Don’t decide to do something with my money that I didn’t ask for. Most of these places yes, serve a function to the majority but are really for someone else’s resume and political asperations.

    I am not against public facilities but how the money is commandeered from the public to finance these places. I am against government telling us what they are going to use our money for. It is supposed to be for the people by the people. I believe that we as Believers should be more vocal about what is going on. Jesus said (a loose paraphrase), “Those who seek to save their life will lose it and those who lose their life for my sake shall find it.”

  51. samuel January 22, 2007 6:02 am Reply

    Dear CSE,

    I have been trying to keep up with this whole situation and have only just read this post about the sentencing. I can honestly say that I am very saddened by this turn of events and pray for everyone at CSE. It really puts my little issues into perspective and my problems in life look miniscule in comparison.

    I know I cannot possibly feel and totally understand what you are all going through within CSE and the Hovind family, but I do know the Lord has a plan for everyone, and I believe the Hovind family and CSE is an integral part of the Lords gospel being preached unto all nations as a witness. God bless you all!

    I would also like to say a big THANK YOU to Dr. Hovind and CSE for your inspiring work over the years. I only recently discovered it last year, but I can honestly say the Lord has used it to have an astounding effect on my life, my family’s life and even as we speak, my friends, colleagues and acquaintances lives in a positive way. This whole trial and recent conviction thunders Gods word that people who live Godly in Christ SHALL suffer persecution. But rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for GREAT is your reward in heaven!

    My thoughts and prayers go out to Kent and Jo, to Eric, Marlissa, Kent Andrew, your children and grandchildren, and all affected at CSE by this situation. I have included some scripture for reassurance and support. After all, if God be for us, who can be against us?

    Romans 8:28-39  “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

    Deuteronomy 20:1-4  “When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people, And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them; For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.”

    John:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    John:14:27: Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

    I’m sure you know this, and I hope and pray this scripture will be comforting to you all in this time of trouble.  The Lord is with you all, he is in control, no matter what happens. He will not let the enemy prevail even in the face of seeming defeat and even death!

    Again, I will keep you all in my thoughts and prayers…. and Eric, with the Lords help you will have no problem filling those big old shoes of your dad!

    Galations:6:9: And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

    God bless you all!

    Sam. West Yorkshire, UK.

    P.S. Please feel free to email me at [email protected]

  52. Paul Guye January 22, 2007 6:26 am Reply

    Question everyone!!! What is the difference between the preaching from the 12 disciples and Kent Hovind? Not much really! The disciples and Kent Hovind both sacrificed many things including their freedom because they loved and believed in God so much, that we who saw and herd about this might also believe! So, to give up on Kent Hovind you would also have to give up on the Disciples and many others who followed Jesus!!! Ok, maybe Dr. Hovind did not go through some of the horrible things that the others did. Although he is a lot closer to being a Disciple than some of these modern day “Cotton Candy Preachers” who will not even slap a Jesus bumper sticker on their car. Think of what Hovind has done for God and us! As I told him in a personal letter I wrote him a few weeks ago… “I can’t even start to describe the impact he has had on my life and the life to come!” Dr. Hovind has turned me into a soldier of God! I will continue to relay God’s message to those who will listen and to those who are troubled.
    I will continue to pray for Dr. Hovind, CSE, and give all of my support to his son Eric Hovind.

    To Eric Hovind: “It’s time to put on the whole armor of God”. God now has you in the spotlight! I have faith that you will continue the ministry even stronger! Even though I have never met you, I will support YOU! I hope to meet you soon!

    You’re new friend,

    Paul Guye


  53. FuManchu January 22, 2007 6:35 am Reply

    Looking on the bright side, at least now Kent will be able to respond to all those people who challenged him to written debates, where oratorical ability takes a back seat to facts and reasoning. He always used to say that he was too busy for such things – fortunately, that’s unlikely to be a problem during the next ten years.

  54. dinosrus January 22, 2007 6:52 am Reply

    My family and I will keep on praying for you Dr. Hovind, Jo, Eric and your entire family and ministry. Dr. Hovind led me to Jesus Christ 11 years ago. I bought some VHS tapes not knowing exactly what they were suppose to be I watched them. Praise God!!!!!

    Dr. Hovind, I finally got to meet you in Kernersville, NC over a year ago. It was truly a pleasure to see and speak to you face to face. You are the person who led me to the greatest change of my existence. Without Jesus Christ I truly don’t know where I would be today…

    There are many readers in this blog that support you and a few who don’t.
    Don’t sweat it……

    Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    Only God knows how long you may truly be in prison but while you are there, continue to strive 100% to win souls as you are currently doing. Very recently an opportunity has opened for me to go into a prison ministry. I am very excited about this and can’t wait. I have read what you have written about conditions in the jail, the people and their history, etc and my hopes and prayers are that I can be a huge asset to lead them to the truth which is Jesus Christ.

    God Bless!!!!

  55. joshua joscelyn January 22, 2007 8:11 am Reply

    Eric, I’ve been a fan of CSE for quite some time now. My heart is breaking for the trials your family is facing. You remain in my prayers. I’m a college student in the Pensacola area. And I would like to offer myself to be of service in whatever capacity possible. I have been watching your emergence as a frontrunner on this team, and I can’t wait to see what the Lord has in store for CSE during your tenure. If there’s anything I can do to help, Lord willing, I’m available. Also, if anyone could tell me where the Hovinds attend church, I have been looking for a home church for the past couple of months and am very interested in attending their church. Thanks and God bless.
    Joshua Joscelyn
    [email protected]

  56. darling January 22, 2007 8:44 am Reply

    jasonallen347 said this:

    “I myself have read the tax laws and find no place where the 16th Ammendment gives new taxation powers to the gov’t.”

    Unlike most other tax protester nonsense, this statement is actually true. The problem is not that the statement is false, but that it doesn’t mean what tax protesters think it means and it doesn’t lead to the conclusion that tax protesters want to reach.

    “It clearly defines “employees” with no mention of the average person trading their labor for just compensation.”

    It doesn’t have to. Take a look at §7701(c):

  57. Jester January 22, 2007 9:24 am Reply

    Excellent assessment Eric, the whole thing could have been easily avoided. The best way of not getting bit by a snake is not to play with it. I would know, I’ve gotten bit enough. The number of times you’ve been bitten is directly related to your IQ: I’m not very smart.

    There is a good lesson here: stay on the Word. Fighting with Caesar, or anyone else for that matter, is not what we are supposed to be doing. “What about unfairness and injustice?” you ask. The Maker of Heaven and Earth is the Judge, the Lord of Hosts is His Name. He will repay, vengence and judgment are His and His alone. If you want to fight, you’ll be going alone. He (The Father) won’t. What ever happened to “Be still and know that I am God”?

    Maybe I just have a Bible with missing pages and verses, Mark chapter 16 in mine doesn’t have “And be ye politically active, fighting every injustice, and partake in protesting.” Its nothing more than a snare that most believers fall for over and over. In the 80’s, it was the abortion issue, in the 90’s it was shady time shares, and now questionable business practices. When will we learn? Walk as He (Jesus) walked: upright and with honor, going above above and beyond what we have to do.

    Peace be with you all,

    Jester aka Rev. John

  58. McGurk January 22, 2007 9:40 am Reply

    A word of advice:

    Kent Hovind has been sentenced to 10 years. That means that he is probably eligible for parole in 3-5 years. If he wants to be paroled, he will need to go before the parole board and say that he was wrong and that he is sorry for what he did. If he continues on the path he is on of continuing to say that he has done nothing wrong and that the “buffalo is going to fight the lion as long as he has a horn” he will probably serve the entire 10 years.

    And, if he continues to pick a fight with the government by insisting that they are wrong and he is right, he will probably be re-arrested, and spend the rest of his life in prison. As they say, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    A good show to watch would be the A & E program “Parole Board”. The only people I have ever seen get paroled are those who take responsibility for their crime and then show remorse.

    Of course, the choice is up to him, so it will be interesting to see what he chooses.

  59. darling January 22, 2007 10:14 am Reply

    Ooops… almost forgot:

    jasonallen347 Said this at 1:26pm:

    “I encourage all find the law that states that a person is required to pay the 1040 or 1099 income tax in the IRC. It is not there.”

    Yes it is:

  60. xchampion91 January 22, 2007 11:27 am Reply

    I am saddened by the hate that has been shown by fellow “Christians” that delight in kicking a man when he is down, whatever the circumstances. We live again in the time of the Pharisees.

    This situation reminds me of when the Lord said that the love of money is the root of all evil. So very true. Even the so-called churches of America have given themselves over to the Lord of this world, just to get the free money handouts and the tax exemptions. Christian, are you strong enough to really look inside yourself. Preacher, same goes for you. Are you trading your salvation for the gov’t (Satan’s) handout?

    Are you a free man in Christ, or a slave to the world. It IS the time of the Apostate church folks. The End is getting near. Do you want to be an Apostate and hear the Lord say to you on Judgment Day that he never knew you? Scary thought that. I believe that this is a sign for the watchmen in regards to the falling away of the church just as the Lord prophesied.
    Fellow Christian it is time to take your stand. Be neither hot nor cold (Rev 3-20) but choose.

    Oh, by the way Jmeert. Why do you follow this case so intently? It is obvious that you do not like Kent. Did he do something to you personally or does his message of Creation come so close to the real truth that you have to fight back (or your Master, maybe)or lose your precious convictions? I think that you NEED Christ. More so than many I have encountered on this blog with the exception of maybe one or two whom I will not name. I will pray for you but I will no longer cast my pearls before the swine. God bless you.

    God Bless CSE ministry all the more because of their faith in him.
    Eric, be brave. Be resolute like your father. Rejoice in tribulation. We love you and your entire ministry and what has been accomplished for Jesus through all of your work. And remember that your reward is in heaven. Those who are rich already have their reward saith the lord.

  61. prayer January 22, 2007 12:09 pm Reply

    Committed to prayer for the Hovind Family and the entire CSE team. Your ministry has had a huge impact on my life, and will continue to do so!
    Your brother in Jesus Christ,

  62. [email protected] January 22, 2007 12:58 pm Reply

    Dear Eric and ones at CSE ministry,
    Thanks for updating us! About a year ago we heard about your ministry through a friend. Since then we have throughly enjoyed watching Dr. Hovind’s seminars and debates. When we heard of this case we stayed as updated as we could about what was happening, and prayed. To say the least, we were very disappointed to hear about his 10 yr. sentence, and will continue to pray for him! God bless you Eric for taking up the responsibility of your Dad’s ministry, and we’ll definatly be praying for you, and the ministry!!!
    Love and prayers, the Lee family

  63. jcbent January 22, 2007 1:16 pm Reply


  64. eecreationist January 22, 2007 1:39 pm Reply

    Here we have a very good example of how good works don’t outweigh your bad ones. Kent did a lot of good works and produced a lot of good fruit, but the judge did not care. He only looked at (what he considered to be) his bad work. Just as God will do when He judges our Sin. So it is a good thing Christ died for our sins so that we can be cleaned of our wicked sin when it is our turn.

    Some questions about the situation. A lot of these come from Wikipedia, which I know Kent does not like. However, if I am going to defend him against my skeptic friends, I need to have answers. I am willing to accept that some of these are distortions of the truth or flat out lies, but would still like an answer. Why did he take out sub $10,000 deposits? Did he have $42,000 in cash stashed in his “Hovind compound”? Why did he not take out taxes on employees? Did Jo request for financial assistance from Baptist Healthcare?

    I guess for now I would say he took out deposits of that size to be on the safe side and stay under the radar. He had cash for emergency purposes. He did not take out taxes because he considered them missionaries and DNL and a church based business which should be tax exempt. I would go along with that. They should be just as tax exempt as any other church program. I don’t have an answer for the financial assistance from the Baptist Healthcare thing. Perhaps she did so many years ago when they were getting their start.

    Anways, I hope someone has answers. We all deserve them.

  65. Eugene January 22, 2007 2:42 pm Reply

    Dear Eric Hovind and family.
    I am devestated to hear that your father was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison for failing to pay taxes to the IRS.
    Interestingly, the Scientology church won it’s fight for tax-exempt status against the IRS in 1993, ending the longest investigation in IRS history. (Source: Encyclopedia Brittanica 2005 Deluxe Edition CD-ROM.)
    My question, therefore, is: Why is that particular church exempt from paying taxes to the IRS, whereas, CSE is not? (Maybe it is worthwhile investigating.)
    I trust that the Lord will give you strength to continue the fine work that your father has done over the past 18 years.
    I shall pray that this case is overturned on appeal.


  66. fmargulis January 22, 2007 3:33 pm Reply

    Dear Eric and family,

    A number of us are praying for all of you. I, too, was dragged through this same system and sentenced to 5 months in prison and 5 months of house arrest. The truth that God is both sovereign and good sustained me and my family throughout this ordeal. I am still serving probation and it is very difficult finding a job … and yet, God continues to provide! It is important that Kent seek the LORD to understand what it is that He wants y’all to understand during this time. Feel free to contact me. I can give you some info on the federal prison system that may be helpful. Good news: there are some very strong believers in prison. The fellowship I had at Montgomery Federal Prison Camp was very sweet. And I dare say you will be surprised at who steps up to help y’all during this hard time. Psalm 50:15. Trust God.

  67. Treebeck January 22, 2007 3:41 pm Reply

    Dr. Hovind,
    I’m so glad to have found your blog. I wouldn’t have known it is here except that I’ve been defending creation on the PNJ site, and one of the athiests there said you’ve been blogging from jail. I’m so glad that we can still hear from you, and I’m excited to know that you’ve been continuing your work for Christ while there. I hope and pray that you continue to have access to this medium for as long as you must stay incarcerated.

    How heartening it must be for you to see your son step up and continue to fight the good fight. As I tried to tell the evolutionists and atheists, I don’t believe in a Biblical, 6-day creation because you told me to, I believe it because God said that’s how He did it. I need no proof. That said, your ministry has helped to strengthen my faith and present creation in an orderly way to our children and to others. You are definitely at the front of what seems to be turning into a nasty war.

    I realize you would rather be with your family right now, but how wonderful for the people to whom you’re ministering that you are where you are. As a teacher, I see many children headed down a self-destructive path which ends up in prison. I do my best to help them while I have them, but what I do cannot undo all of their life’s experiences. People say that jail-house conversions don’t stick, but with the presence of a man with your conviction, knowledge, and dogged determination, those conversions have great potential to turn into discipleship training and develop into many more permanently changed lives: testimonies to the wisdom, grace, and love of God.

    My family and I pray for you and will continue to do so. My children love you. Your ministry has had and continues to have a great impact on all of us.

    God bless you and your family,
    Teresa Beck

  68. Gordon_Comstock January 22, 2007 3:54 pm Reply

    I see our lovely little comrade darling is at it again, spewing up tax code this and tax code that, not understanding that tax code is not equivalent to law.
    Indeed, Albert Einstein spoke of our beloved comrade, when he made the famous quote: “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

  69. Gordon_Comstock January 22, 2007 4:09 pm Reply

    Oh, and Mr. Virtual, if you DO really want to be objective ever, and to honestly check your bearings to see if you are seeing the world squarely or not, you could do no better than to read your King James Bible.
    That is, if you truly wanted to be objective (which I must confess I would tend to doubt a little). Hey, why not?–you already know the other side. That’s obvious.

  70. Second Look January 22, 2007 4:11 pm Reply

    Regardless of one’s perspective on any point of law, this case has more to do with the question of whether or not we as citizens can live, work, and move about in accordance with our most basic of rights…freedom of religion. Even a brief survey of the facts and players (from a juror’s perspective) can clearly delineate the difference between heinous intent and moral courage in many cases.

    The Hovind’s have acted in accordance with their beliefs. Without malice, or wrongful intent. Whenever men or women stand with integrity on their beliefs, they have done everyone a service…even for those who would not espouse their beliefs or their interpretations of law. Again, I say, we have done more harm using poor judgment and showing ridiculous leniency toward true criminals who demonstrate evil characters. And we are content to ‘send a harsh message’ to other would-be protestors by ridiculous severity.

    To the discredit of our system, it seems we will only have the ability to live, work, and move about in accordance with someone else’s perspective, someone else’s beliefs, and with our most basic of duties…freedom from religion.

    The Barretts,
    Mineral, Virginia

  71. Joe Christopherson January 22, 2007 4:13 pm Reply

    Hey Brother and Sister Kent and Jo Hovind,
    We are praying for you and our hearts are broken for you. We are believing God for a speedy deliverance from this situation. We are praying God will intervene in this unjust attack from the irs.

    Godbless and keep you both and your ministry in Jesus name,
    Joe Christopherson

  72. pelican January 22, 2007 4:29 pm Reply

    Does anyone know what address to use to write Dr. Hovind in prison?
    CSE Fan

  73. merwan January 22, 2007 5:23 pm Reply

    Hey, people! Snap out of it! You’re such a bunch of sad sacks – you’re acting like the world just ended. Do the math, for heaven’s sake! Ten years isn’t a lot of time: the way I figure it, it’s only about .0017% of the entire age of the universe according to Hovind reckoning. And as the Good Book says, a thousand years is as a single day in the eyes of the Lord, so this 10 years only amounts to about a minute and a half. I’ve sat at red lights much longer than that.

  74. bobbright January 22, 2007 5:26 pm Reply

    I think Dr. Hovind needs to sell his story to Hollywood. It has all the elements of a blockbuster, even the court documents on are interesting to read. In fact, I think they should cast Tom Hanks as Kent Hovind.

    Our family is pulling for you, you never know, something good might come from this. One of the best movies out right now is End of the Spear about Missionary Jim Elliot and that story definately came from a horrible circumstance.


  75. CMarychurch January 22, 2007 5:47 pm Reply

    The world will never be the same without Kent Hovind providing us with great “insights” into science.

    “Also, Einstein’s formula – E=mc^2 – […] Einstein was just saying the speed of light squared – 186,000 times 186,000 – that is a huge number. I don’t think anybody knows, including Einstein, that that exact number is correct – the energy is equal to the speed of light squared – that is just an illustration to show how much energy can be found in a small amount of mass. I mean, it could have been E=mc cubed or quadrupled, I don’t think anybody knows. How would you prove such a thing? How do you know it is not E=mc to the two and a half power, you know, or some kind of law like that? The point is, the speed of light is not a constant according to an awful lot of research in the last 25 years […] and Einstein’s formula is just giving an example of how much energy there is.”
    Truth Radio 21 July 2006

  76. joshrjb January 22, 2007 5:51 pm Reply

    I’m still hoping we don’t even have 10 years left on this earth. Another earthquake hit Indoensia yesterday, registering 7.3. THE USA TODAY purposely mentioned that a church was damaged. They probably do this to try to “prove” that this was not a sign of Christ’s return. God is sovereign and answers to no one about His actions.

    I will be praying for Eric and the entire ministry. I’m still praying that God will work in the heart of Judge Casey Rogers and release Kent.

    When I was in junior high school and before I came to the Lord Jesus Christ (I was saved at the age of 24), I was quiet and often got harrassed by other guys. Because of this, I often hated going to school. I skipped out one day, got caught by the truancy officer, and had to serve a Saturday in detention. I served the Saturday in detention. The man supervising the class said that I didn’t belong there and told me he never wanted to see me there again. The same is true for Kent. He doesn’t belong in prison. I pray that the Lord will somehow use this for His glory, and that most of all Kent is released soon. He doesn’t belong there.

  77. darling January 22, 2007 6:24 pm Reply

    Gordon_Comstock said this at 3:54pm:

    “I see our lovely little comrade darling is at it again, spewing up tax code this and tax code that”

    Ah yes, Mr. Comstock. All insult and no substance.

    Shame on me for giving the law when someone asks for it.

    “tax code is not equivalent to law.”

    I think you’ll find that it is.

  78. Samphire January 22, 2007 6:47 pm Reply

    Hi, JrTurner,

    I think that, contrary to your post, I am afraid that you will find that Lucille Offiler did not beat the IRS. She served her application on the wrong office and so the IRS returned to court and had her application nullified. The lien still exists.

  79. Samphire January 22, 2007 6:50 pm Reply

    Hi, eecreationist,

    Perhaps I can help you with your enquiries.

    1. It was the decision of the jury that what you describe is exactly what Mr.H. did. He took out sums close to but slightly less than $10k “to stay under the radar”. But that is an offence under US law if such a program of withdrawals is deliberately “structured” to defeat the bank’s cash reporting obligations. In other words, Mr.H. conspired to break the law. Unfortunately, he got his wife, Jo, to take the money out of the bank thus making her a co-conspirator and, consequently, possibly liable to a long term of imprisonment. For that he should be and probably is deeply ashamed. I hope that the court bends over backwards to limit any sentence as far as possible but insulting the honourable judge as some posters have done on this blog is unlikely to be of assistance.

    2. $42,000 for “emergencies”? What sort of emergencies? A flying dinosaur crash landing on the roof? The cost of good legal advice, perhaps? Or maybe, to buy some real science books? No, it wouldn’t be any of those, I’m afraid. You’ve got me beat.

    3. Missionaries to where? Cummings Road? Anyway, I don’t think that the US Tax Code mentions missionaries as being tax exempt. Nor does Mr.H. operate a church. DNL is a non-educational fun park and is a ministry which, frankly, can be whatever you want it to be but it isn’t a church and it isn’t tax exempt.

    4. Which churches in the US have an exemption to pay their employees wages free of tax? I am not aware of any.

    5. I cannot help you on the last one but I hope Mrs.H. got all the assistance she needed.

  80. Ken January 22, 2007 7:00 pm Reply

    Eric, you have our prayers and support as we can afford to give to and buy from the CSE ministry.

    Dr. Hovind, it warmed my heart and I praised God that he answered my prayer for you to be encouraged by the Psalms. I have been reading a Psalm a day and have been amazed at how they are so in line with my thoughts, questions, and situations daily. Not to mention how they coincide with the modern social and political issue of our times. I am convinced we are watching the prophecies fulfilled every day.

    Remember my brother, God is still in control, for our good and his glory. And, in the light of eternity and God’s providence he has us rght where he wants us at any given time. It is the Holy Spirit who guides us and provides….makes all of our situations an oportunity to serve him with gladness. I don’t know wether you are right or wrong, it’s not my place to judge what I havn’t seen with my own eye or known first hand. But I say to you now, remember Job, that God blessed him more in his old age than in his youth.

    Peace be with you in Christ Jesus,

  81. robgentner January 22, 2007 7:13 pm Reply

    xchampion91 said this at 11:27am: “I am saddened by the hate that has been shown by fellow “Christians” that delight in kicking a man when he is down, whatever the circumstances. We live again in the time of the Pharisees.”

    AMEN, AMEN, I say unto you: “United we stand, divided we fall” sound familiar? Pray for the Kovind family. Pray for all of us sinners that our sins are truely forgiven by the Father through the Son.

  82. Samphire January 22, 2007 7:16 pm Reply

    Hi there, darling,

    It seems that poor old Comstock is still as blind as a bat. Can you recommend him a good optician or two so that he can buy a pair of specs to enable him to read Title 26 of the US Law Code?

    I like his attack on authority, though but I don’t think it was Einstein who said what he says he said. At least, that’s what I say. And I hope he isn’t defaming the Good Book in attacking authority, surely not? And calling Mr H his “comrade” – you don’t think Gordon is one of those naughy commie chaps do you?

    Einstein may have said “The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax.” and almost certainly said “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”. Both quotes seem apposite.

  83. Samphire January 22, 2007 7:32 pm Reply

    Hi, Second Look,

    So what you are saying is that people who believe that they are required to pay income tax should pay it but those that don’t don’t have to?

    I agree. Anybody like to join my brand-new church “The First (and Last) Church of Samphire Scientist” ? The only item in the Church’s creed is that adherents are required to believe that they should not be subject to the tax laws of the US.

    An annual “gift offering” of only 5 cents in the dollar on earned income is payable. All money will go to a good cause – honestly.

    Now, please. Form an orderly queue. Especially you, Gordon.

  84. renaeroldan January 22, 2007 8:15 pm Reply

    Hey Eric and Family,

    Dr. Hovind showed courage for standing up against “the beast”. Not many people or christians would. May God give us all the courage to have the same faith. We are in prayer for your family during this time.

    Mr. JMeert, you seemed as though you are a very bored individual to be hanging around all of us crazy christians. You need to get a life! As you see 99.9% of the people on this site have not changed their mind about this ministry. If you are not interested in the love we believers have for this ministry and this family, take up a hobby. Your rude remarks are sad and only add to the judgement you will face by God Almighty if you are wrong. Jesus did say in the bible not to judge others. Judge yourself. Put a mirror to yourself. I’m sure there is a lot of work needed. Myself included in this statement. I’m sure everyone on this site will be praying for you. God bless you.

    God bless the Hovinds. May the Lord give you direction and peace as he did Saul when he was being pursued. Remember, during the pursuit God put Saul at David’s feet! Stay encouraged.

    The Roldans

  85. mtlionsroar January 22, 2007 9:55 pm Reply

    Dear Hovinds:

    Our prayers are with you all! Dr. Hovind- I can’t help but think of all the new souls to be won for the kingdom! May you continue to serve our blessed Lord wherever you go! To God be the Glory! Eric-I pray for wisdom as you take the helm. I’m sure you’ll do your Dad proud. Mrs Hovind-praying for your comfort in all this. Marlissa-I have no words. My heart aches for you. Praying for you. Kent Jr.-Praying for wisdom & help as you support your family.

    I wish I could say something to ease your pain. I’m sure you all know the verses, and the sayings that go along with them for comfort. Please know your pain is our pain, and that we hurt with you.

    Praying for you all.


  86. Satanica January 23, 2007 1:52 am Reply

    Stop asking people to pray (ask for divine cheats). Its simply stupid…

    like God if he exists does not know what is going on with your case.

  87. Samphire January 23, 2007 5:18 am Reply

    Hi, renaeroldan,

    I don’t think that standing in front of a runaway steamroller is a brave thing to do – it’s just daft. If you want to preach religion then preach it but don’t get into politics at the same time. It doesn’t work – as Pat Robertson found out.

    Until recently, Hovind used to stomp around the country accusing good honest (many of them Christian) evolution-believing scientists of being God-haters and part of a satanist conspiracy. Some insult. Some judgment.

    You stick around, JMeert. These “crazy christians” sometimes need a quick tug on their leash to stop them falling off the edge. But when you wrote earlier that KH is “earning his just desserts” how many puddings do you reckon a guy can eat in 10 years?

  88. Samphire January 23, 2007 5:22 am Reply

    Hi, joshrjb,

    What a miserable old codger you are and no mistake. The Good God above goes to all that trouble to produce this marvellous universe just for us humans on Earth to wonder at and to light our way at night and you want it all over within the next 10 years.

    No, I want this World to continue – not just for me but also for my children and their children in due turn.

    [EDITED] …

    to taking a few days off school then you need to pop down to your nearest hardware store and buy a few compensating magnets to put in the binnacle of your moral compass.

  89. Samphire January 23, 2007 5:26 am Reply

    Hi, merwan,

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but in fact your math has gone a little awry – you are not a journalist are you; they always get their calcs wrong? Or perhaps you were home-schooled?

    Allowing for the World being about 6,000 years old, 10 years actually represents some 0.16% of biblical history which is quite a long time. It is equivalent to over 100,000 years since the dinosaurs died out and, even more depressing, over 800,000 years in terms of the laying down of the Pre-Cambrian deposits.

    On the positive side, though, there are still 210,000 shopping days till next Christmas. And it’s never too early. I’ll be popping down to South Devon later today where I understand that there are some good (but slightly damp) bargains to be had.

    Lastly, I think that you might find yourself sitting at the traffic lights for nearly a quarter of an hour rather than a minute and a half which should allow you plenty of time to redo the math.

  90. JR Turner January 23, 2007 6:37 am Reply

    Hi Samphire,

    Could you direct us to the evidence of your post (Jan 22 6:47pm) on Lucille Offiler. I believe you will discover that the IRS only files NOTICES OF LIEN. [EDITED] …

    I love the two quotes below. Not any wiggle room here. The money goes for nothing and a president tells us to rebel against it. What a country. Wake the neighbors.

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt … all individual in-come tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government”
    -Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    “Our federal tax system is, in short, utterly impossible, utterly unjust and completely counterproductive [it] reeks with injustice and is fundamentally un-American… it has earned a rebellion and it’s time we rebelled”.
    -President Ronald Reagan, May 1983, Williamsburg, VA

    ======= ======= ======= ======= =======

    [EDITED] …

  91. marix January 23, 2007 6:56 am Reply

    What is happening to the Hovinds serves as confirmation of 1 thing:


    Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil, against you falsely, for my sake.
    Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

    Mat 10:28 And fear not, them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Remember according to Brother Yun (Book: The Heavenly man), the persecution he suffered from “fellow” christians in the Western world, was worse than being brutally beaten and martyred in a Chinese jail!

    Pray without ceasing.
    Fight the good fight.
    Hold on to His faithfullness.

    From 1 of many supporters of the GOOD NEWS that there is no other Name by which we can be saved, but JESUS the Messiah, Son of the Creator God – the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

    From South Africa, with love.

  92. Matthew January 23, 2007 7:12 am Reply

    Has God answered your prayers for Kent Hovind? Did God stop the trial? Did God stop the conviction? Did God stop the sentencing?

    Maybe, instead of asking “God, are you there,” you should be asking yourself are you listening to God.

    You may say Kent is your Christian brother, but how you can trust him when he is dishonest and will not accept the truth and the blame.

    Those who want to continue to help Kent financially remember, “fools and their money are soon departed.”

  93. McGurk January 23, 2007 7:51 am Reply


    Make sure that your mother shows remorse, and is contrite. Try to do whatever it takes to settle this thing before she is put in prison. Remember what the Saviour said in Matthew 5:

    25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
    26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

  94. bloghog January 23, 2007 7:59 am Reply

    I don’t get this at all. HAve any of you listened to Hovind talking from jail (especially to his wife). This guy is a megalomaniac and there are a bunch of kool-aid drinkers following him around. This is not about religion, it’s about a man who has conned his family and apparently a lot of gullible people. Hovind is a fraud, his Ph.D. is mail-order, his science is fake, his theology is made up and his ‘mission’ is fundamentally and apologetically flawed. It shocks me that he managed to dupe so many people into buying his fraud. This man was not convicted in the way Jesus was convicted. This man is not a martyr. He’s a fraud. If you don’t believe me, listen to his tapes from jail. Listen to how he talks to his wife Jo when she is hurting. She is begging him to help fix the marriage and instead of making an attempt to reconcile, he tells her she needs to change. What kind of arrogant unloving individual does such a thing. His ‘conversions’ in jail are driven by ego. He counts ‘souls’ as if it were a contest. Others don’t advertise their work. Listen to the tapes, then decide.

  95. eecreationist January 23, 2007 8:06 am Reply

    Thanks for the response.

    I hope I don’t get in trouble for taking out deposits of less than $10,000. I don’t think I have withdrawn more than $10,000 at a time ever in my life. Though I know why it would be suspect if withdrawels look diliberately less then $10,000. The long list of $9500 and then $9600 deposits looks like he knew what he was doing. I don’t know how you could really legally hold this against somebody other than to use it as support in a court case. Like I said, I bet the majority of Americans take out withdrawels less than $10,000.

    $42000 does seem like a lot of money for emergencies. In a standard 5% apr interest account, that money would net $175/month, which is a pretty good chunk of change. Did Hovind ever tell the court why he had the money there? Again, this is hardly illegal. What someone wants to do with their money is their business. It is certainly not against the law to not have your money in a bank.

    I don’t know much about church and taxes. If a church employees have to pay taxes on their income, and therefore the church needs to take out taxes for them, then why wasn’t he taking out taxes for his employees? If the main argument was “can his them park and businesses be considered a church or ministry” which seems to be up for debate, why would it matter? Whether it is a church or not, he needs to take out taxes for his employees. I am still confused as to why this is.

    I haven’t heard much from Hovind or CSE’s side. Most of the news has come from the internet and media. Maybe the court is right and what Hovind was doing was illegal. It does break my heart that such a harsh sentence was given. But this does not mean I am going to dismiss what Hovind has done for me over the last couple years. Any more than finding out that my first grade teacher is in jail for tax fraud would cause me to doubt that 2 + 2 = 4. If I was to turn away from every person and preacher because I found out he was a sinner, I would be an awfully lonely person.

  96. Samphire January 23, 2007 8:25 am Reply

    Hi, Mr Abramson,

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why you censored my last post.

    You wrote earlier “I also sometimes edit for length and remove curse words, etc.” but the post was not long (tediously boring, maybe) nor did it contain any offensive or potentially offensive material and I would not wish your readers to think that it did.

    Kind regards

  97. darling January 23, 2007 8:50 am Reply

    Hi there, Samphire,

    I could try and predict why Mr. Comstock thinks US Law is not law, but it doesn’t matter: courts have already considered, and rejected, the argument. And we know from Marbury v. Madison that “[i]t is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.”

    It seems that Mr. Comstock’s use of comrade is directed at me. Apparently unable to respond to my arguments, he has to resort to ad homenim. Which is fine by me – sticks and stones. It’s just a sign of desparation on his part.

    I’m sure understanding the entirety of the income tax is hard, but then the vast majority of it doesn’t apply to individuals. The parts that do apply are easily pointed out – as I’ve shown . Unfortunately, as pointed out by the seventh circuit: “Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.”


    Hi JR Turner. As I said in an earlier thread:

    Give me the full Grace Commission quote, in context, and we’ll talk. It doesn’t say what you think it says.
    (Here’s a clue – it’s not talking about 100% of 100%, it’s talking about 100% of a particular fraction.
    You get bonus points if you figure out how I will tie it in to Mr. Hovind.)

  98. Samphire January 23, 2007 9:29 am Reply

    Hi, eecreationist,

    Thanks for responding.

    1. I agree that most Americans probably take out less than $10k per week but if the figure that is taken out week after week after week is about $9,600 (please read the indictment for full details) it starts to look like structuring. Then when you have a witness who stated that KH told him he was like the Pope and outside the tax system it starts to look worse. Then you bring in other witnesses who say similar things. So the 12 honourable members of the Petit Jury, having heard all the prosecution evidence and nothing in rebuttable from either Mr or Mrs Hovind, came to their conclusion that this was “structuring” and inevitably found them guilty. They were caught out by an arbitrary law which I understand was originally intended to catch terrorists and drug traffickers and sentenced under a strict and unforgiving Republican scheme of enforcement.

    2. With respect to the $42k, Mr Hovind told the court nothing nor was he on trial for it. However, why would you keep $42,000 dollars at home when the IRS had just confiscated your armoury? None of us know and no conclusion may be drawn from it.

    3. Why do you say that you are confused? You have put the matter into a very neat and compact nutshell. I suspect that what you mean is why could not KH see things as clearly as do you.

    4. Well said. We are all sinners and we should all stick by our friends especially when they are in trouble.

  99. Samphire January 23, 2007 9:31 am Reply

    Hi, JR Turner

    The reference is the same as that which you kindly gave earlier but you need to open document no.6.

    I agree that your two quotes are humdingers. RR must have said them just after lunch and immediately fallen asleep again.

    It is a nice idea that a President would rebel against himself. Perhaps he didn’t realise who he was or, perhaps, Nancy’s astrologer decided that the time just wasn’t sufficiently auspicious.

  100. loumiron January 23, 2007 9:32 am Reply

    Bloghog mentioned that there are tapes that Dr Hovind has made recently. Does anyone know where I could download those tapes? I have been a follower of Dr Hovind for several years, had a chance to see him in person just about a year ago and would love to hear what he has to say. I also have been searching for his debate series. Any resources that you know of??

  101. bloghog January 23, 2007 9:58 am Reply


    Turning away from a sinner is wrong. Embracing a fraud is something else.

  102. ahons January 23, 2007 10:20 am Reply

    My family and friends are praying for you and family and ministry, we really enjoy all your materials, you will be in our continued prayers.

  103. titusblair January 23, 2007 10:57 am Reply


    My father has written a letter to Bill Oreilly and I would encourage you all to DIGG the article so that we can get the word out. For more details on the letter and to send it to Oreilly and any other news agency please visit or the following link:

    God Bless You!

  104. cbgiles January 23, 2007 11:16 am Reply

    Would it be possible to get Dr. Hovind’s prison address?
    Here’s my idea.
    Everyone who is concerned over Dr. Hovind could do this.
    Once the prison address is posted, everyone concerned (myself inluded) could purchase books and dvds from Creation Science Evangelism and donate them to that prison’s library.
    I’m willing to send copied vhs copies and maybe 5 copies of The Evolution Handbook and Are You Being Brainwashed to the library for reading.
    What do you think?
    This could help Dr. Hovind’s ministry alot while he’s in there…and it would help out CSE, too.

    [email protected]


    [EDITOR’S NOTE]  We believe that Dr. Kent Hovind will be moved from the local jail in Pensacola where he has been since November to a federal prison sometime later this week.  The Bureau of Prisons will decide when and where.  It may take a week or two before he has a stable address.  Separately, DVDs and books should be approved by and sent via the chaplain in any government corrections facility.  Unsolicited packages may be thrown out.  For years CSE has been sending free videos and DVDs to prisons across America (via the chaplain’s offices) whenever requested.  The chaplain usually needs to make the request.  We do not know for sure, but in the office here we think this ministry has donated materials to at least 500 prisons and jails in the U.S. and abroad thus far.

  105. Maturekid January 23, 2007 1:12 pm Reply

    Hey Matty-boy!! You’re back!!! Nice to get such sage advice from one who pushes a concept that all life comes from a meteor. A concept brought to us by a segment of the Stephen King Creepshow movie. Yup, you should be heeded on all matters. Nice hearing from yah!!

    darling, Gordon – Nothing personal but please don’t rehash the argument again. darling – If you have something new, great. Otherwise, I’m starting to think your the marketing rep for that attorney. If you want to advance the same arguments as before, then just refer people to the thread location where you already made your statements.

    However, there is a nice little catch-22 question from your assertion that the tax code is the law.

    eecreationist –
    A couple things to help you on your search for information. I too am awaiting for the Hovind & CSE side. I’m also waiting to read the documents on the court case. Mr. Springer’s stuff on penalty protester website is somewhat useful if you can discern the facts from his opinions.

    First, I’d refer you to EndTimes 2nd post on this thread. He gave the link and copy-pasted the definitions used for Structuring. If I was a juror, I’d be hard pressed to accept the structuring charges. The definition of it puts a massive amount of pressure on the prosecution to prove. Compared to other cases and the dates of the withdrawals, I’d say the structuring charges are weak at best. Definitely a stretch.

    Charge 58 – I’d need more information. Some of it does sound a bit weak or flat out lame.

    As for the withholding taxes for employees in regards to church employees, that’s a sticky topic. It is also the core of the first 12 charges.

    Minor history lessons – Prior to 1954, churches had the freedom to express their views on topics and political candidates without restrictions. Courtesy of then Senator Lyndon Johnson, 501.3 c (or the foundation of) was slipped into the IRS tax code and effectively stifled what ministers and churches could say as they were now regulated by the IRS. There is current legislation being actively pursued in Congress to undo this. (My Mom’s opinion of LBJ – he was a spiteful and nasty guy. Her opinion, I wasn’t born yet.)

    Prior to 1984, churches did not collect taxes from their employees whether it be FICA, Social Security or income taxes. In 1984, this was added to the tax code.

    Problem – If the tax code is the law as darling asserts, then the above changes create a problem.

    First Amendment of the Constitution restricts what Congress can do.
    “Amendment I Freedoms, Petitions, Assembly
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    It can be argued that the above listed changes to the tax code clash with the restrictions on Congress under the First Amendment.

    1954 event butts up against “prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech”

    It required churches to file papers to be 501.3 c compliant or risk losing their tax exempt status. However (as asserted in a number of locations), this left the churches now in the category of being regulated by the IRS like any business. The 1984 events layered on more regulations.

    As for the $42,000 in cash, the size of the amount of emergency funds held on site is irrelevant. As you said, it isn’t illegal. I know of quite a few who hold emergency funds on hand. There are a couple I know that don’t put any of their money in the banks. Their prerogative. Letting the courts know if you have money at home is like letting them know if you have a preference for tofu or beef. If it was seized without regard to due process, then it is a legal matter.

    Personally, I think the whole personal income tax code should be scrapped. So should the said events of 1954 and 1984. (The amount of tax dollars gained doesn’t balance with the amount of charity work performed and cost of enforcing the laws on churches.) Replace the personal income tax with a national sales tax structured similar to the sales tax of the states. It would solve a mountain of issues, dissolve a portion of the IRS (saving tax dollars), not have cases like this in court (saving more tax dollars), no paperwork filing needed (more tax dollars saved), no TIN’s needed, and with a few more changes, eradicate the dependency on Social Security numbers and re-institute privacy as much as is feasible.

    Okay, that’s my 2 cents. As for the Hovind’s, my wife and I will keep you in our thoughts and prayers through this tough transition. We will also look forward to the results of the appeals. Back to work for me…

  106. beckypearl January 23, 2007 2:07 pm Reply

    Thank you for keeping us informed about your father and mother’s legal situation. My family is praying for you all. As much as it pains so many to know your father is locked up and things are out of his control… we know that all this is ultimately part of God’s plan – and HE is still in control… at least that thought is comforting. I agree with the others that have encouraged you to continue preaching in your father’s absence (hopefully his absence will be short and he will be out preaching with you again very soon). Maybe that is also part of God’s plan – to have you step up and blossom in order to fill your father’s shoes. You stepping up now can only strengthen your ministry… Once your father is released your ministry will be a thousand times stronger with all your and your father’s experiences combined. We are thankful for you and your drive to continue where your father has left off! Your family and ministry is a huge asset to God’s kingdom! Your ministry has helped our Lord and savior get his message out to SO many of his lost or confused children! It’s very obvious that HE is working and shining through you!
    We were fortunate to get to see your father live last summer and I look forward to attending one of your own seminars in the near future (and more of your father’s as well).
    Be strong! This is your time to shine and grow! There are still millions that long to hear the message you have implanted in your heart!
    May God bless you, your family and your ministry! Your ministry has changed my life forever and you have our support 100%!!!

    In love,

  107. pcachaplain January 23, 2007 2:43 pm Reply

    Dear Brother Hoven,
    I must admit that I was shocked when I discovered yesterday that you were convicted. I went to the one site and read the brief posted by the paralegal and was even further shocked at the lines the government trespassed as well as those that blurred. While I grant that only God can access the human heart it clearly appears that there was another agenda by the IRS. It can be summed up as : You’re guilty and we’re going to find evidence to prove it. The re-definition by the court of particular laws and statues was at best convenient and at worst deceptive.
    I continue to pray for your safety where you are and your ministry there. I’ve not always agreed with you on some side issues (such as the KJV vs. other translations, or all the issues of the NWO) yet you are firm in your belief and clearly articulate the issues on creationism. When I was the Army command chaplain for Kuwait I made sure that we had a set of your tapes in the chapel library. It is my prayer that you will be released soon (I hope you make legal appeals of the court’s findings).
    I looked at several blogs that were antagonistic towards CSE and it seemed demonic in their glee that you had (apparently) been silenced. One thing is sure- none of this has caught Our Heavenly Father by surprise. That is easy to say but harder to endure when one’s family is under attack. Christians need to be keenly aware that when one member of the body suffers we all suffer as the body of Christ (Eph.4).
    Some of the blogs said this wasn’t a religious issue but a legal issue. I’m sure they said the same thing to Paul in his imprisonments: “Oh, he’s there for political reasons, not because he is religious.”
    So please continue to support CSE dear beloved of Christ and continually pray for them.

    In Him,

    Christopher Faria

  108. adammcg January 23, 2007 4:32 pm Reply

    @cbgiles – That’s a great idea! I’m certainly willing to help in whatever way I can.

    To CSE, I’m devastated with the verdict, Dr. Hovind was a good man and he’s helped more people than I can ever count. I can only hope that he will be released much sooner to continue his work in the ministry.

    For the rest of you, please visit
    and if you’re not already a member, signup and ‘Digg’ the article. If it becomes popular enough, it will reach thousands and thousands of people.

  109. jproverbs3_5 January 23, 2007 5:05 pm Reply

    Dear Titusblair,

    Regarding your message that states:


    My father has written a letter to Bill Oreilly and I would encourage you all to DIGG the article so that we can get the word out. For more details on the letter and to send it to Oreilly and any other news agency please visit or the following link:

    God Bless You!”


  110. jproverbs3_5 January 23, 2007 5:13 pm Reply

    Dear Titusblair,

    Regarding your message that states:


    My father has written a letter to Bill Oreilly and I would encourage you all to DIGG the article so that we can get the word out. For more details on the letter and to send it to Oreilly and any other news agency please visit or the following link:

    God Bless You!”

    Please will you stop already? I hope and pray that O’Reilly doesn’t read the letter on the air. Why should they free Kent Hovind? Why? He broke the law and now he is paying the price. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. He didn’t pay his taxes. We ALL have to pay taxes? ALL of us and although I love the Hovind ministry and the creation message, Kent disobeyed the authorities that are in power and therefore disobeyed God. Read ROMANS 13 people and stop trying to get him freed! I believe this is a time for Dr. Hovind to reflect, seek God and become humble.

    I saw the transcripts of the telephone calls that were taped while he was in jail. If he was innocent, he wouldn’t have said those things and to top it off he sounded very arrogant saying that the authorities would be sorry and that he could do things “to make their lives miserable.”

    Doesn’t sound like the words of a humble man to me. And don’t tell me that I am deceived or that I am judging, because we are supposed to judge those who are on the inside and claim the name of Christ. Now I’m not saying Dr. Hovind is not a Christian, I am saying that he was wrong in what he did and he is paying the price.

    So please, stop trying to bring attention to this people and further shame the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

    Let it be.

    In Christ,
    James Montalto

  111. JR Turner January 23, 2007 5:20 pm Reply

    The way these posts are being edited this information may not reach anyone but, here goes.

    The information below comes from News With Views in an article by Devvy Kidd. The research comes from Lynda Wall. Lynda is an expert in the field of withholding and has been assisting employers and employees alike for many years in understanding the law regarding this issue.

    Unlawfully penalizing employers

    The IRS threatens employers with huge fines if they don’t withhold payroll taxes. Funny thing though, according to a September 15, 2003 letter from GAO (General Accounting Office) to Congressman Elton Gallegly regarding W-4’s and reporting, this little nugget of truth stands out:

    “Under current law, IRS does not have statutory authority to impose a penalty to enforce employer compliance [EDITED] …

    We the people have two choices: You can either stay on your knees to this tyranny or you can get the facts and then enforce your rights using the law.

    What future will you pass on to your children and grand babies? Freedom or indentured servitude?

    [EDITOR’S NOTE] …Hmmm,  this poster starts with:  “The way these posts are being edited this information may not reach anyone but…” and ends with the copyright notice below.  Fine.  Copyrighted material (as it is claimed to be) removed.  As the poster states: “All Rights Reserved” and the poster’s name differs from the expressed name on the “copyright.”  Is there any other choice that could have been made?  …sigh….  Again, please use this blog site to express opinions, but it is not free advertising, and it is not appropriate to gratuitously abuse others either.  Words can build up, can inform, or can deceive, and can maim.  Matthew 12:36  (Jesus speaking) “But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
    “© 2003 Devvy Kidd – All Rights Reserved”

  112. Gordon_Comstock January 23, 2007 5:23 pm Reply

    All right, God bless you, Dr. Hovind, and we will keep praying for you. But I am here and now retiring from this board because too many of my posts are being omitted, I know not why.
    I will try to obtain news about Dr. Hovind elsewhere, and will no longer even be checking this board, as it will no doubt drive me nuts to read some of the insane comments of the godless gloaters that seem to have taken over this forum and not be able to respond to it myself, for fear that, if I do respond to it, there’s a more than fair chance it won’t even show up. Too frustrating.
    Goodbye all, God bless.

  113. Charity January 23, 2007 6:21 pm Reply

    Dear Brother Kent,
    My heart is broken. I am so sorry to hear about this outcome. Once again evolution could not argue facts and so they silence the messenger. Not to worry because I think many of us will pick up the torch and they can’t silence us all. You and your precious family are in my prayers always.
    Love in Christ,

  114. joshrjb January 23, 2007 6:42 pm Reply


    How’s it going?

    I can’t believe you called me a miserable old codger! Dude, I’m only 28! I forgive you.

    When I said “I hope we do not have 10 years left on this earth,” I was writing to Christians. When the Lord Jesus returns, He will take us to Heaven to escape the wrath that will befall all who have rejected Jesus as the Eternal Son of God and Messiah. (Revelation 4:1, which marks the end of the Church Age). I hope you will look to the Lord Jesus Christ as your sin-bearer and trust in Him to save you.

    God’s universe is marvellous; we agree on that. All who love the Lord Jesus Christ will inherit all things in the world to come. I want you to be there. Every person needs Jesus as his or her Savior and Lord; I do; Kent Hovind does; you do. This is because we’ve all violated God’s laws. God sent His Son to fulfill the law for us, so that everyone who looks to Jesus as his or her righteousness will be delivered from God’s wrath on sin and will live with Jesus for eternity. Isn’t that good news?

    Come to the cross today, my friend. Jesus is waiting.

  115. InLawsAttic January 23, 2007 8:24 pm Reply

    Dear Brother Kent & Family,

    We are reading all you are posting-we are weeping, and praying!… we were shocked, but not surprised at the dishonest, lying and conieving attacks of the IRS on your family. We believe this is just another tactic to harass homeschoolers, creation science teachers, and Christians- similar to using CPS falsly, by reporting falsly, or it is even the people within the agency boiling with hate and jealously that are attacking. They are attacking our leaders first- we pray you fight well, and we hope for more people of knowledge and understanding to join you in this, for all of us are next!

    We have loved your ministry through the web, tapes, books and the radio for many years- we support you – we have read / own almost all your books-we agree with all of your principles!… we have and will send money as we can on a regular basis-

    God Bless all of you- hang tight for this storm, God will turn evil for good , and bless you for remaining faithful- Even in trouble you are teaching all of us- we have read your prayer list and are praying- we are also trying to post your info to others that would be supportive and could maybe be of help- your news is spreading- we have always given your materials out and have seen many come to the Lord from your tapes and brochures- be assured you are doing God’s will- this attack will end in your favor, because God is forever in control – and he knows all the truth!!
    May the Lord Bless you and keep you all!!!

    Mary Beth & Family

  116. bbitmaster January 23, 2007 9:06 pm Reply

    Last night, I ran across a really nice report on what happened at Hovind’s sentencing last week, and found it a real blessing. I thought I would share it for those that have only the crazy liberal newspaper as their only source of info.

    NOTE: I am not affiliated in any way with this site, I just found it to be a really refreshing unbiased report on what happened.

    God Bless,

  117. mt_thot January 23, 2007 10:40 pm Reply

    Perhaps we should consider that if Mr. Hovind could be so easily misled regarding something so straightforward as proper accounting and tax procedures, that perhaps he has been misled about a great deal of other things. His words carry no credibility.

  118. CreationCD January 24, 2007 2:47 am Reply

    After praying and fasting for Dr. Hovind along with many other Christians last week, he was convicted.

    I know God heard our petitions. Keep praying and wait on the Lord.

    I love to hear testimonies of people who came to the Lord or re-dedicated their lives or just were blessed through this ministry. Keep up the postings.

    Dr. Hovind preached alot about Job and his three friends.

    How many of Dr. Hovind’s friends have come here to convict him of sin?

    Others who did not dare speak out in his presence, but covered there mouths lest they be reproved, now find the boldness to mock him.

    I read a newspaper article today about two convicted child molesters in Massachsets who were released (no jail time) as long as they attended treatment. I don’t know of any websites dealing with them that shows the hatred that many have shown Kent Hovind.

    Why is that?

    Carl Marychurch, why is Dr. Hovind’s ministry so threatening or odious to you that you spend so much time opposing it? There are other creationist speakers but you have not spent years pouring over there works to debunk them. What exactly did Kent Hovind preach or stand for that made you dedicate so much time to opposing him in particular?

    Samphire and others, what did Dr. Hovind do to society that makes you relish his conviction so thourghly. Can you give me an example of any other criminal case that you have written blogs or editorials on ? If not then ask yourself why you are here and tell us what the truth is.

    Some of you who are asking what to do, remember what Dr. Hovind kept telling us to do.

    Get in the war. I for one have been sitting on the sidelines too much.

    Dr. Hovind won thousands to the Lord. I haven’t won any (yet).

    Ask your pastor if you can show a Kent Hovind video to a Sunday School class and do a question and answers.

    Give away some seminar tapes or DVD’s.

    At the Berkeley Debate, my daughter (12) laughed at a teacher who probably had a Masters Degree because the teacher actually believed she was related to a banana (my daughter also passed out the the BIG DADDY Chick Tracks that “Skip” used to confront Dr. Hovind in the Q&A). Let’s make sure the next sunday school kid whom Carl or Frank tries to convert to evolution laughs at them, gives them a tract and prays for them.

    Dear Eric,

    God bless you and your Dad’s ministry.

    Please try and keep us posted.


    Thank you for that link to that geological column article you gave afew weeks ago. It led to

    by Sean D. Pitman M.D.

    (I already had the other links you gave)

    I had been working on a power point presentation about antibiotic resistance and after I read some of the articles on that site I had to spend alot of time getting it up to date.

  119. bloghog January 24, 2007 8:50 am Reply

    If Kent Hovind led people to Christ with his false teachings, then those people are in danger of losing their faith when they discover it was based on a bunch of lies. If you prayed and fasted over the weekend to stop Kent from being convicted, you were a month too late. He was convicted in December. If you prayed that he would not go to jail, do you also pray for other convicted felons to be let out? Hovind committed a crime against the country that gave him the freedom to sucker people with his ‘ministry’. Hovind committed a crime against religion by bearing false witness against his neighbot. Hovind is a con man and it’s almost sad to read the comments of so many people who continue to be conned by Hovind. Wake up folks, this guy is a fraud and at least a few recognize it.

    PS: If a MS teacher was teaching that humans came from a banana, that teacher should be fired. I’m sure you’re embellishing a little here. If you or your daughter are making such an assertion you should also be ashamed of perpetrating a lie. A medical doctor who does not understand evolution is a very dangerous doctor indeed!

  120. eecreationist January 24, 2007 9:08 am Reply

    You bring up a very good point:

    “I read a newspaper article today about two convicted child molesters in Massachsets who were released (no jail time) as long as they attended treatment. I don’t know of any websites dealing with them that shows the hatred that many have shown Kent Hovind.”

    People oppose Kent not (only) because they believe he is wrong, but because what he teaches speaks right to the heart and conscience. If he went around preaching that 2+2=5, noone would care. He would be dead wrong, but noone would give him the time of day.

    Similarly, what these two child molesters did was wrong, but noone cares enough to pursue convicting them because what they had done does not affect their lives or their conscience. Kent’s teachings, which in their minds is wrong, does affect them because it causes them to doubt the freedom from God that evolution so successfully does.

  121. Samphire January 24, 2007 9:43 am Reply

    I took Eric’s suggestion at the head of this blog and clicked on and read Lindsey Springer’s court report which somewhat confused me. I googled Lindsey’s name and discovered a number of sites and reports which seem to indicate that Mr.Springer is not someone whom you would wish would ask to borrow your last dollar – at least, not if you wanted it back.

    In 1999 the US Court of Appeals 3rd Circuit on an application filed by the SEEC required Mr.Springer to personally “disgorge” back to the investors of a Ponzi scheme The Infinity Group Company Trust the sum of $1.25m. Mr.Springer appears to be acting in the present matter as Mr.Hovind’s paralegal, a job title with which I am unfamiliar. Ironically, Mr Hovind has complained in the past that he believes the US Social Security system to be nothing better than a Ponzi scheme.

    Mr.Springer has filed no personal tax returns for 25 years.

    Question 1: Why is Mr.Hovind associating himself with this known crook?

    I then listened to the tapes and was shocked.

    It is common knowledge that Mr.Glen Stoll is now the figurehead fronting Mr.Hovind’s business interests. Mr.Stoll is a known proponent of tax-fraud schemes and has had an injunction issued against him by the Justice Department forbidding him from continuing to promote such schemes and to reveal the names of all his clients.

    If you send your car registration documents to Mr.Stoll together with a small payment he will change its ownership to himself (or, at least, to one of his alter egos) and give you a driving licence issued by God. I am not making this up – see There is no promise that you will get the ownership back on demand. Presumably, if Stoll goes bankrupt you will lose the car.

    From the tape, with Mr.Stoll’s advice and assistance Mr.H. has set up a number of trusts in order to “invest” his ministry’s funds and has appointed Mr.Stoll to control and run them. Mr.Stoll lives some 2,800 miles from Pensacola so at first sight this would seem to be an inconvenient arrangement. I have not been able to determine how much is in the funds or how much each year Mr Stoll is permitted to remove from the funds for his own use but perhaps those kind and generous souls who have offered money to assist Mr.Hovind might first like to write to Eric to ask.

    Question 2. Why is Mr Hovind, who declares himself most vigorously on the tapes not to be a tax-protestor, associating himself and allowing his business to be transferred into various trusts controlled by a known member of the tax protester movement who is presently under IRS investigation?

    At the trial Mrs Hovind was represented by counsel, Mr.Jerold Barringer. On the tape his name came up when Mr.Hovind was discussing the hiding of assets from the IRS.

    Question 3: Why did Mr.Hovind tell the person on the other end of the phone “Don’t tell Barringer anything – he is one of the enemy”?

  122. pcachaplain January 24, 2007 10:05 am Reply

    I’ve read a couple of the posts by someone named Mcgurk. His basic premise is Dr. H will be out in 3-5 years if he goes to the parole board in a contrite manner saying he is sorry for what he did. IF the legal system has exceeded its purvue, then basically what Mcgurk is saying is that Dr. H. should lie. He should simply bow to a bully who has the power of the sword and is wielding it in an unbiblical manner (Rom.13). This is nothing more than counsel for situation ethics.
    The early church faced the same issue. The Roman government told the Christians that they, along with the other citizenry would have to swear “pietas” (loyalty/faithfulness)to Caesar. And when they came looking for the copies of Scriptures, some of the Christians caved in and told them where the copies were located. The ones that did not cave in were called “The confessors.” (See Phillip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, vol 1). I DO not recommend that Dr. Hoven admit that he did something wrong simply to get out of jail.


  123. Samphire January 24, 2007 10:39 am Reply

    Hi, CreationCD,

    You asked “Samphire and others, what did Dr. Hovind do to society that makes you relish his conviction so thourghly. Can you give me an example of any other criminal case that you have written blogs or editorials on ? If not then ask yourself why you are here and tell us what the truth is.”

    Please show me where I relish his conviction. On the contrary, I think that it is a great shame that his mental condition is such that he is unable to discern what he has become.

    Do I believe that he is an extremely nice and generous man – yes but with some serious reservations. Do I believe that he has any concern for his own wealth – no. Do I believe that he should be permitted to preach the gospel – yes. Do I believe he is a rogue – yes – but only with respect to his current dealings with the IRS and in the way he abuses scientific knowledge to mislead his congregations who know or want to know no better.

    What do I dislike? Well, exactly the same inability to deal honestly in respect of his “science” (as opposed to religious) teaching as he is exhibiting in relation to his refusal to admit his legal taxation obligations to his staff. I think that he has talked himself into believing exactly what it suits him to believe and, now, to her desperation not even his poor wife seems able to penetrate this obsessional mindset. Such a state of denial is not an uncommon phenomenon. Most of us have it to some degree or other but with Kent it seems pathological.

    As an example of his tax obsession he stated on the tape that he had had some 400 hours of conversations with Glen Stoll over the last four years. That equates to the best part of three working weeks a year. What on earth does one need to talk about to a tax-fraud proponent for such an extreme length of time? Surely not tax fraud? Well, perhaps one day we shall find out but if it was me in Eric’s shoes I would be extremely concerned about these current arrangements.

    Finally, why am I here, you ask? The title at the head of the blog states “Following the Creation vs. Evolution Controversy”. It takes at least two to make a controversary. If it wasn’t for me and a handful of others it would simply be a blog “In praise of Saint Kent of Pensacola”.

    Have I written blogs on other criminal cases? No – but then I don’t know of any. But I have been writing about Mr.Hovind to various people long before this case came about warning them of his character and his associates. I am sorry to say that I have been proved right.

  124. savedbygrace January 24, 2007 11:14 am Reply

    My family and I have been enlightened by Dr. Kent Hovind’s ministry for a long time and also use his homeschooling material and I’m here to say “count it all Joy!” I’ve seen the Jimmy Swaggart case, Catholic Priest and Bishops acts, and countless others, all battling with moral decay and watching their followers fall left and right because of it. And finally this man is suffering for doing what he thought was right and fair! What a great Honor the Lord has bestowed on Kent Hovind for allowing him to suffer for his names sake!
    I’ve read the Pensacola Ad saying “the newly remorseful Kent Hovind” and I immediately thought of Abraham {the friend of God},who we all know is in heaven and serving God, How when he was affraid that they might kill him and take his wife Sara, had her to lie and say she was his sister. Did God condemn him? Did God leave him? If Kent did infact say anything wrong on the jail phone, Who are you that you wouldn’t do the same or worse! Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone!
    Our Prayers are with the Hovind family and also with those who have hardened their hearts and forgotten where they were before they were saved!
    The Martens Family

  125. bobbright January 24, 2007 12:11 pm Reply

    I’ve been reading the Blog entries and am surprised that the main issue is never really addressed by the Anti-Hovind crowd. The court made a horrible mistake by issuing a prison sentence instead of issuing a financial penalty/fine for his Accounting oversight. The court could have easily required Dr. Hovind to file back taxes, issue back W-2’s, issue back 1099-M’s, pay employer taxes on the Dinosaur Park employees and at the same time assess generous penalties and late filing fees which is what they do with other people in this same situation. Yes, this isn’t the first time this has happened! But instead they decided to shut him down. The problem with the sentencing is that it still doesn’t rectify the situation. In fact it just makes it worse because he can’t earn the money in jail to pay the debt.

    I hope Bill O’Reilly takes up this cause, the court decision lacks common sense.

  126. chaplaindoug January 24, 2007 12:42 pm Reply

    None of those posting here (including myself) can know the feeling of being tried and imprisoned for standing on principle and upon God’s Word. I am thankful for those here who are careful to not be to brother Hovind as Job’s “friends” were to him. Most of us, if we were honest, would admit that we would have quickly buckled and broken under the trial brother Kent has endured. We would have compromised, rationalizing our actions as “this is not a hill worth dying upon.” Unfortunately, almost all the hills have been lost because Christians have taken that attitude. When the guns blare, we run and hide.

    In reality, nothing has been taken away from us by the devil or our government. Instead, we have GIVEN our ground up to the enemies of the truth, bit by bit, until there is little left. THANK YOU BROTHER HOVIND FOR NOT RUNNING AND HIDING. You are truer to God and to the convictions He has laid upon you than are most of us. I bless you for that.

    If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides, is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point.
    – attributed to Martin Luther

  127. Ramon Ruenes January 24, 2007 2:32 pm Reply

    To CreationCD:

    It doesn’t surprise me to hear about the state of Massachusetts, the land of Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy, giving convicted child molesters a slap on the wrist while down in Florida a harmless Christian iconoclast is given hard time for merely believing (and acting accordingly) that the government has no business in his ministry’s finances. Soon enough will pedophiles and NAMBLA be regarded as the next Democratic Party demographic outreach (with the RINOs following suit a couple of decades later), while actual Christians will be increasingly treated as volatile and dangerous weirdos.

    The silver lining at least is that Dr. Hovind wasn’t given a full 200 year sentence. About how much of his 10 year sentence is he expected or required to actually serve? I understand how greedy our supposedly conservative government is for the money which we work hard to earn, but surely if murderers and perverts can get a break by only serving partial sentences can Dr. Hovind get released for merely disputing the socialist tax paradigm.

    Cross your fingers. We may very well see Dr. Hovind back on the debate trail and seminar circuit before we know it, much to the pagan (or atheist) evolutionists’ chagrin. Not that Eric does a bad job filling in his father’s shoes, mind you, but those shoes are very imposing indeed, and Eric is still a veritable adolescent in creationist circles with some growing yet to do.

    Let’s hope that this government imposed virtual orphanhood for the Hovind children and grandchildren is cut short rather than needlessly prolonged. There are a lot more important things for the government to worry about.

  128. Dawn Piper January 24, 2007 2:40 pm Reply

    Dear Hovind family

    Having had the privilege of meeting Dr. Hovind in March last year when I visited the USA (I’m a South African), I feel really sad about the turn of events. However, in praying for the situation, I believe that as Joseph was sent to Egypt and rose to 2nd in command, so Dr. Hovind will be redeemed. What men have meant for evil, God has meant for good. We don’t always have our prayers answered in the way we want, because we have a very narrow world view. However, God sees all things from His perspective, and I do believe that you are exactly where God wants you to be for the time being.

    Please be comforted by Psalms 16 and 17. I find that my prayers have been particularly centred on those two Psalms. Be of good cheer – if we are not persecuted (not only by the world – but also by so-called fellow christians), then we aren’t being very effective. You. Dr. Hovind, are amazingly effective. I pray that Eric will grow in leaps and bounds and that the Lord comforts you all.

    CSE is a wonderful tool to use, and I have my new DVD’s that finally arrived. Will be using them to teach and reach many people.

    God bless you all. Shalom

  129. bobbright January 24, 2007 2:51 pm Reply

    I read this on an eye witnesses’ blog page: “Casey Rodgers, allegedly the youngest US judge, and one who represented local strip clubs pro bono while still working to pass the bar, was clearly not enthused about the profusion of Christianity in her courtroom”

    Wow, it’s all coming clear now. The judge is a liberal activist, that’s why there is an unnecessary 10 year sentence instead of simply a penalty/fine/pay back taxes sentence. Gee whiz, I wish the court system had better oversight and could rid themselves of biased judges.

  130. Millerfamily6 January 24, 2007 4:05 pm Reply

    Here is something that may be of interest to some on this blog….a bit of church history.

    Here is a part of the intro…

    “The Trail of Blood . . .”
    Following the Christians Down Through the Centuries . . .
    or The History of Baptist Churches From the Time of Christ, Their Founder, to the Present Day
    by J. M. Carroll

    THIS LITTLE BOOK is sent forth for the purpose of making known the little-known history of those FAITHFUL WITNESSES of the Lord Jesus, who, as members of the CHURCH JESUS BUILT, “Overcame Satan by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death,” Rev. 12:11.

    I Dr. J. M. Carroll, the author of this book, was born in the state of Arkansas, January 8, 1858, and died in Texas, January 10, 1931. His father, a Baptist preacher, moved to Texas when Brother Carroll was six years old. There he was converted, baptized, and ordained to the Gospel ministry. Dr. Carroll not only became a leader among Texas Baptist, but an outstanding figure of Southern Baptists, and of the world.
    [EDITED] …
    Click on the link above to see the rest of this book.

  131. mckenzie1967 January 24, 2007 6:10 pm Reply

    Dear Eric,
    My prayers are with you, and I feel a real burden to pray for Kent. The first time I heard him on the radio, I was overwhelmed, and couldn’t have left the car if it had caught fire! I was immediately fascinated with him, and have since then seen him once (he was in a high school in Dover Maine a couple of years ago)and managed to get a dozen or so audio files of his on cd, plus a VHS. I have copied them and given them to many people, and through word-of-mouth have tried to get more people to see him as well. I feel that I have grown very much in education and courage in terms of speaking about creation, and taking apart so-called ‘contradictions in the Bible.’ I am looking forward to watching Kent Hovind receive his rewards on That Day (as well as maybe doing a ‘Ray Boltz – Thank You’ number to him! :) .
    One thing : I want to write to him to encourage him. I assume that he is currently in a prison in Florida. What is his mailing address? That should be posted on your site here somewhere, or did I miss it? I don’t have time to read every reply looking for it. Please post it, and or (somebody please) notify me, or I’ll check back later looking for it. My primary e-mail address is : [email protected]

    I hate to say it, but Joseph was in prison for 13 years. But hey, we’re still talking about him 4,000 years later, so Praise God! If Kent is willing, he and the Lord can still MOST DEFINITELY make a difference!
    God bless you all. Remember who you live for, who is with you and will never leave you. Fight the good fight.
    Your Brother in Christ,

  132. EndTimes January 24, 2007 6:47 pm Reply

    To my fellow bloggers,

    From the many articles that I have read, Dr. Hovind’s battle with the IRS stems from his long held belief and trust in the constitution of the United States and its specific provisions protecting the freedom of religion in this country. Dr. Hovind as many have testified and many have known is a man of deep and abiding convictions by which he has lived his life. The issue of the sanctity of religion in the eyes of the founding fathers of this great nation is evident in the legal documents that they have left as their legacy. Unfortunately, this nation no longer honours many of the simple freedoms guaranteed in the constitution that are clearly abrogated by such legislation as the Federal Reserve Banking Act and the 16th ammendment. Today, we are now subject to orwellian doublespeak in so many aspects of our lives that the truth of the tryannical nature of our modern United States Government is lost on the average citizen that no longer understands many of the basic principles of civil liberty that our nation was founded upon.

    Dr. Hovind’s case is an example of a government that places its concerns over that of preserving religious freedom and the free exercise thereof as seen in many current and recent court cases. The constitution is a document worthy of protection and even of the sacrifice of men’s lives which many have willingly given. Sacrifices can be given in many ways. The man of principle will always stand forth against the shackles of bondage of an unjust system. Of a truth, the guiding prinicple that Dr. Hovind espouses in his defense is the constitutional protection of freedom of religion and the free exercise thereof. Unforetunately, Dr. Hovind’s conviction and sentencing is further evidence of the unadulterated abrogation of these very basic constitutional protections. I would point out another telling example of this in the case of Sgt. Michael New who was court martialed for refusing to be a United Nations mercinary soldier in violation of his oath to protect the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Below is a short exerpt from his website.

    “On October 10, 1995, the 1/15 Battalion of the 3rd infantry Division of the U.S. Army came to attention at 0900 in Schweinfurt, Germany. All but one of the 550 soldiers were wearing a sky-blue baseball-style cap with a United Nations insignia on the front. One was wearing the olive-drab flat cap that is authorized to be worn with the Battle Dress Uniform. With this simple act of disobeying a direct order, Spc. 4 Michael New set the stage for a legal battle that has profound implications for the future of American soldiers into service of the United Nations without the constitutional permission of Congress.

    After ten years of litigation, former Army Specialist Michael New has yet to be allowed to introduce into a court of law the evidence that proves the lawful validity of his refusal to wear a United Nations uniform and serve under a U.N. commander, in direct violation of Army regulations, of his exclusive oath of allegiance, and to the Constitution of the United States.”

    My point is to focus the church of America on the adversarial nature that our government has assumed against the people of God even though their rheotoric still professes godly principles in great swelling speaches. Yet, the actions of our government show otherwise. People of the church, please recognize the beast that proclaims its presence to all that have ears to hear and eyes to see. People of God, please separate yourselves in the manner of Abraham from the earthly power of Sodom that his nephew Lot did not. In the morning, Lot sat at the city gate judging at the city gate, surrounded by the authority and prestige of the earthly power of Sodom and the next day he had lost it all. Our Lord Jesus warns us quite clearly in Luke 17:28 that it will be as the days of Lot for the church at the time of the end. Please relinquish the notion that our government has the answers for the social evils of today and recognize that they will soon come from “all four quarters of the town” for all Christians, not just simply those Christians that take principled stands against tyrannical resolutions against our constitution. May God have mercy on our souls.

  133. JR Turner January 24, 2007 7:06 pm Reply

    The plot continues to thicken.

    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====

    IRS: 9th Circuit overturns Tax Court in McKee – Tax law too complicated to understand.
    From: Lindsey Springer
    Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:18 AM
    Subject: 9th Circuit in McKee

    On December 4, 2006, the 9th Circuit reversed the United States Tax Court on whether litigation costs involving the IRS making a claim that was 3 times what they were actually owed was the liability of the McKee family to suffer. An added penalty so to speak.


    It is a short read but the sum of it is the Tax Court held the IRS was not liable for their calculation blunders on the basis that the Tax Court, in its discretion, claimed the regulations written by the IRS and codes were so complex that the IRS could not be held liable for its failure to understand them. The 9th Circuit reversed. The Commissioner of the Internal Revenue asked the 9th Circuit not to make the decision public.

    And now you have it. No matter what they do with it, you have a copy of it and the Commissioner is bound by the decision. Imagine, the taxpayer claiming mistake because the statutes and regulations were so complex and the IRS rejecting that and seeking penalties for failure to measure up.

    This decision and the Tax Court abuse of discretion show that the Tax Court is not a Court at all but a place where the complexity can be filtered to the benefit of the IRS. I do not mind the Government having the benefit when the law supports their claim but when the law is basically written by them and they claim it is so complicated they cannot be held liable for their mistakes, and they deal with it every day for their job, what does that say about the rest of America?

    It is so complicated. The IRS cannot comply with their own regulations nor even understand what they say. Add this to the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995 duties upon them and it is like having this in HD.

    In short conclusion I would say that Judges will eventually show up at the dance but they probably will not be invited nor will they enter as everyone else. It is always good to have someone monitoring the cameras from the side and rear entrances just so we know when they are there and when they have left the building.


  134. Samarra January 24, 2007 8:42 pm Reply

    First … I’d like to express my sincere grievance over this news. I was shocked to hear such a lengthy prison sentence when so many others of worse crimes go free or get much less. Who can figure the mind of mankind?

    May I suggest that Kent (& family) get ahold of books, etc, by Dr. Myles Munroe. Particularily anything regarding “Kingdom Principles”, for that matter I suggest it for all Christians. You’ll be amazed at what you learn about the world as it is, our expectations as Christians, the kingdom of God, your purpose, etc.

    I also suggest Kent get ahold of Jim Bakker. Yes, I said that. Jim Bakker miraculously got out of prison several years before he was suppose to and he may be able to help get Kent to the people that helped him. He is currently back on the air with his new show called The Jim Bakker Show. I’m not advocating what he did or didn’t do right, it’s not my place to judge him or Kent & family … I’m just trying to give resources that might help.

    I’d like to call a *fast* for all able bodied supporters of Kent & family. My suggestion is a three day NO FOOD fast (72 hours minimum), just lots of water, water, water. The second day will be the hardest but do this for Kent & family. You may get a headache and feel somewhat sickish but it should pass by the third day. Hunger pains soon subside if you’ve been working on weaning yourselves from food beforehand. Wean yourself into a fast, don’t do it cold turkey, work your way into less food up until the day you decided to begin the fast, continue the fast for a full 72 hours in earnest prayer for Kent & family. Plan the fast, don’t just jump into it. Study about how to do them, there are several types, which bring about different results. The point of a fast is to get closer to the face of God, and ferverently pray for this family and a miracle from the Lord. God listens to those who fast, there is much supporting scripture about this. Likewise when you come off a fast, do it slowly, a little fruit here, a few hours later a carrot or stalk of celery, etc. Always come off a fast slowly, don’t over eat!

    The MOD of this blog should be able to forward to me any questions you may have about fasting, and I in turn will send you alot of web links for you to study up on before you start in on your fast. I would post those here but apparently web links are not allowed? They are not to my site, I’m not touting my own horn … they would be to other sites that I’ve come across on this subject. And yes of course, God answers prayers also! You don’t have to fast, but it does make a difference when we afflict our own bodies for the sake of another. If you are in poor health don’t do this fast. Consult your physician, this is NOT medical advice, nor is it something done lightly … it isn’t called ‘afflicting your soul’ for nothing. This is just a suggestion for those that seriously want to get with the Lord moreso than by prayer alone. I will be starting my three day fast for Kent & family in a couple of days. I’ve just come off a three day no food fast, and am in the last days of my 21 day Daniel fast (can eat fresh vegies/fruits) so I now know what to expect, it is doable and miracles DO happen!

    Above all Hovind family, remember these things …
    Joseph was imprisoned (Gen 39:20)
    Samson was imprisoned (Jdg 16:21)
    Jeremiah the prophet was imprisoned (Jer 32:2, onward)
    Daniel was imprisoned with hungry lions (Dan 6)
    John the baptist was imprisoned (Mat 4:12; Mat 14:3)
    Jesus was imprisoned (Luk 23, which doesn’t actually say He was in prison but He was a prisoner none the less)
    Peter was imprisoned (Act 12:5)
    Paul was imprisoned (Act 16:37, onward; some might contend he deserved it, but it was part of God’s plan)

    Encouraging scriptures:
    Psa 69:33 For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.

    Psa 142:7 Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

    Mat 25:34-36 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    Eph 3:1 “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, …”

    This is saying that you are the Lord’s prisoner, not a prisoner of mankind nor of the government, nor of the world. Paul was imprisoned a few times, as were many of the other apostles and followers. Many persecuted to death. All by the will of God and for His Glory. Continue your walk with Him no matter where He takes you. Eric, this goes not only for your father and mother, but now also for you. You are the torch bearer for this ministry. Keep on the path of the Lord and He will guide you. There is much more in Eph 4 about being a prisoner of the Lord from Paul’s perspective. I am truly pleased to hear Kent is working for the salvation of his fellows. God Bless you Kent, your reward in heaven will be greater than you can possibly imagine. You have greatly impacted my life with your truth, I thank you! Keep up the work of the Lord! If this is where the Lord needs you, you are in good company indeed! Keep the faith, we love you and are seriously praying for a breakthrough for each of your lives! God Bless you all! Finally …

    Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    Father, I pray for Kent’s speedy release, that you have mercy on Jo and stay any prison time at all, that you bless Eric as he carries the torch of the family’s ministry … in Jesus’ name … amen!

  135. LoungeAct January 24, 2007 11:02 pm Reply

    Kent Hovind being imprisoned truly shows that the Lord God is just. Hovind has gotten away with deliberately spreading lie after lie for way too long, and I am thankful that God is finally putting a limit to Kent’s nonsense.

    Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

  136. BrazilianMissionary January 25, 2007 4:36 am Reply

    Dear Hovind Family,
    We are praying that all weapons that the enemy is using against God’s anointed will be desmantled. Me and my family have been greatly blessed through the impact of Dr. Hovind’s ministry, including his debates, and creation videos 1-7. We pray that God’s will will prevail, and that the Lord will lead Dr. Hovind the ground He has prepared, if that is the prison, let him do it with joy, but I know that there is so much potential outside the prison, so we just pray for overturn, because we serve a strong God. We praise the Lord for Dr. Hovind’s live, ministry and family.
    In His love,
    Luiz and Brenda – From Brazil

  137. Samphire January 25, 2007 5:01 am Reply

    CreationCD said “At the Berkeley Debate, my daughter (12) laughed at a teacher who probably had a Masters Degree because the teacher actually believed she was related to a banana….”

    How proud you must be of your uneducated daughter and how much prouder yet when she fails all her school-leaving exams. But she is still young and all is not lost. Perhaps she would like The Ancestor’s Tale by Richard Dawkins for her birthday which might help her understand not only the extraordinary complexity of life on Earth but also its interconnectivity.

    Her teacher may or may not have had a Master’s degree. If she did posses one then she would have worked hard over a number of years to attain it unlike the phony “Dr” who believed that a gloss of scientific authority could be purchased for a mere $100.

    I also read the website. It seems that Dr.Pitman is an advocate of Intelligent Design. An IDist is a species of Christian who can no longer hold with intellectual honesty to the YEC viewpoint. Missing the irony of his position Dr.Pitman has the mordant temerity to write of “the vanguard theory of evolution”. May I recommend baliset’s webpage and scrolling down to his article “The Evolution of Creationism” for an explanation of why Dr.Pitman may be far too previous in his analysis. Baliset states “Young Earthers are the big losers in the emergence of Intelligent Design because sensible debate has moved beyond their specious arguments forever. Intelligent Design has eaten their demographic whole. But although Intelligent Design is comparatively benign, to see its danger, consider history, replete with pitfalls when we misuse Science as a pillar for Faith”.

  138. joubertdj January 25, 2007 6:40 am Reply

    Dear Eric/Dr. Hovind/Mrs Hovind

    I am confused! Very!
    Dr. Hovind’s tapes brought me originally to the Lord. And for that… I am truly, and utterly thankful! Eric, I hope you continue the work. Some people feel think that we are brainwashed, well the reverse is also true unfortunately… the mere definition of brainwashed, leaves room for basically, well blaming your parents for teaching you to speak…

    Me and my wife’s work both have to do with tax. My company use the tax, her company collects it. We live in an unfortunate world were no one will “give” a decent amount for streets, clean water, infrastructure etc. That is were tax comes in. Yes, I admit if I did not have to pay tax, I would get 3000 bucks more… allot of moola! I am actually a simpleton, I work, I pay the bills, I love my wife, and I praise the Lord for everything he has given me and my fellow man!

    The point that I am trying to make is, well it is actually more of a few questions, is this: Dr Hovind/Eric/Mrs Hovind, why did you not pay employee tax? Did you pay personal tax? The Lord provided you with allot, and yes, he will provide for you even more! Do you give your tenth of what you receive (As salary) to a church? Can you explain to us what you thought about tax?

    Don’t make a mistake, I believe your heart is in the right place, your message is good, and yes I also differ on a few things, but they are no big train smash… this tax thing on the other hand feels a bit like a train smash…(It probably feels worse for you though) And yes, the critics and the scoffers will laugh and point fingers, but like that previous fellow said, you are my Christian brother, I will stand by you until the end of days, I will also ask questions to make sure you are still pure of heart. So please forgive me!

    A strong metal requires allot of heat to be formed into a useful sword!

    May the grace of our Father in Heaven be with you through His Son, Jesus the Christ, who is our Lord and Savior, and may the Holy Spirit comfort you during this time, and the time to come!

  139. KDB January 25, 2007 9:30 am Reply

    I’m extremely saddened by these events. I have long enjoyed the scriptural, knowledgeable, simple and light hearted presentation of Dr. Hovind. I serve as a pastor and our church has been showing the seminar videos for the past month. I just found out last night about the conviction. While I don’t understand all the details it appears the charges shady. CSE is a tremendous assest to the Faith. Our prayers are with the Hovinds and the ministry of CSE.

  140. eecreationist January 25, 2007 10:45 am Reply

    It does seem odd to send a man who owes back taxes to prison for 10 years. To me, prison is a place that you need to separate, or isolate certain people from society (murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc.) and at the same time “punish” or “teach them a lesson”. But it is obvious that Hovind does not pose a physical threat to society. His teachings, whether true or not, will never result in mass killings, like Hitler or Manson. And how is he supposed to pay back the government for what he owes? He’s not going to make any money in prison!

    I can understand that they need to “teach him a lesson” since they fear he will continue to practice as he did. But 10 years? Come on. I think the couple months in jail probably did the job. Or maybe some additional months. But 3,653 days in prison seems like overkill and is counterproductive. To me it suggests that there are other motivations behind this sentencing.

  141. FlakyLMD January 25, 2007 10:49 am Reply

    Just wanted the entire staff/family to know that we are supporting you through prayers & means. I am so sorry for all you have been going through. I know God is right there, in control and working. Stand in faith, be encouraged and keep on keeping on!
    Because of Christ

  142. mizlee January 25, 2007 10:59 am Reply

    It’s too bad the phony “DR.” Hovind didn’t get 20 years. He is nothing more than a con man, spreading lies about the nature of the world and gathering ignorant suckers into his delusional worldview. I truly feel sorry for the thousands of hopelessly uneducated people who have swallowed the totally false and ridiculous myths he has promulgated. People! THINK! There is not one accredited university in the entire world that does not accept evolutionary theory and no reputable scientist anywhere would give credence to the crackpot notion that dinosaurs coexisted with man. They disappeared 65 MILLION years ago, people! But no, you silly childlike worshippers keep sending the money and thinking that your prayers are a good way to spend your time. This kind of magical thinking would be laughable if it weren’t so dangerous.

  143. Samphire January 25, 2007 11:37 am Reply

    Sorry, joshrjb, only meant in jest. Only 28, eh? Lucky you.

    Only 10 years to the Rapture, then? You won’t even be 38 – what a waste. Remember to be at the back of the queue to get a good seat: as Matthew says, “the last shall be first”.

    Your good news is wonderful – but who is going to pay your mortgage after you’ve gone?

  144. cbgiles January 25, 2007 11:38 am Reply

    Not to change the subject too far, but watch this video about what they call a prehistoric frill shark. Watch it swing and think nessie or champ type sightings.
    They say it existed 56 million years ago according to the fossil record but strangely it still exists. Maybe it’s always been here over the last 6000 years. To me it seems it must look exactly like it did according to the fossils for the identification of it but somehow has not evolved.
    This is good stuff.

    2 Peter 3:
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,
    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

    [email protected]

  145. Samphire January 25, 2007 11:41 am Reply

    Hi bobbright,

    You write, “Ive been reading the Blog entries and am surprised that the main issue is never really addressed by the Anti-Hovind crowd. The court made a horrible mistake by issuing a prison sentence instead of issuing a financial penalty/fine for his Accounting oversight. The court could have easily required Dr. Hovind to file back taxes, issue back W-2’s, issue back 1099-M’s, pay employer taxes on the Dinosaur Park employees and at the same time assess generous penalties and late filing fees which is what they do with other people in this same situation.”

    “Accounting oversight”? For 22 years?

    The IRS had tried to obtain information from KH but he returned all correspondence unopened and marked “Refused for fraud” and then sued it for harassment. There were also issues relating to the hiding of assets in relation to early judgments. You can lead a horse to water……..

    The financial position is worse than you might think because, assuming a similar level of business as the previous 3 years, there will be a further $450k or more to pay for the years 2004 to 2006 together, doubtless, with further penalties and interest.

    I have been doing a few calculations on the schedules shown in the indictment. The sum of $430,400 was withdrawn over a period of 351 days. This equates to $8,607 per week. Assuming that the employees were paid weekly and KH had been more ordered in his arrangements, there would have been an excellent opportunity for the Defence to have argued that there was no substance to the structuring claim. But no Defence was put up. Why? It is all very mystifying. I have read that the Defence thought that the IRS had not made out its claim but, given KH’s poor tax history, I believe that this was a very bad call on their part. To be fair to the Defence, perhaps putting Mr & Mrs H on the stand would have made things even worse.

    As for putting KH away so that he cannot earn to pay off the debt I suppose that it would not have helped his case to have the court hear him making arrangements to hide his assets. I don’t think that you can blame the court under these unusual circumstances for feeling that it had no option but to impose a prison sentence. Remember Admiral Byng?

  146. Samphire January 25, 2007 11:42 am Reply

    Hi, Endtimes

    How would KH paying over his employees’ tax, social security and Medicare contributions together with his 6.2% employer’s contribution have offended against his right to practice his religion? Perhaps I am missing something.

  147. Samphire January 25, 2007 11:45 am Reply

    JRTurner said:

    “It is a short read but the sum of it is the Tax Court held the IRS was not liable for their calculation blunders on the basis that the Tax Court, in its discretion, claimed the regulations written by the IRS and codes were so complex that the IRS could not be held liable for its failure to understand them. The 9th Circuit reversed. The Commissioner of the Internal Revenue asked the 9th Circuit not to make the decision public.”

    Congrats to the taxpayer for his victory but there is nothing in the Memorandum as reported by Lindsey Springer which states that the IRS could not understand its own codes. The Memorandum stated simply “The Tax Court’s finding that the IRS was excused because its own regulations were “complex” was an abuse of discretion.”

    There is nothing in the Memorandum either which suggests that the Commissioner of the IRS asked for the decision not to be made public. I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong but I would find it very difficult to believe any officer ever making such a request as they would be well aware that such court decisions are always in the public domain.

    Of course, I am not too surprised at this slanted reportage. I have referred in a previous post to the unsavoury nature of Mr.Springer’s character.

  148. cscalkins January 25, 2007 12:09 pm Reply

    I left the following on the Jan 2 blog…figured I should leave it on this here updated blog…

    Kent, Family & Ministry…

    I have been educating myself, students, youth, etc with your videos from before the current millenium to date. I have copied at my expense via your graciousness (which is Biblical) your tapes for many, many friends, etc. since I had first ordered them. I have even sent them to friends in Europe I have met via eBay. Every time I had called your cell phone, you personally answered. Once you were riding your lawnmower & stopped to take my call. That is boss!! What a trip that you cared enough about folks to personally talk to us on the tele. Get down!! Needless to say I felt a stabbing at my heart when I had heard negativity from Christian friend of mine concerning your incarceration. While I love this friend dearly, I reminded them that you never hid your adgenda, in fact blatantly stated it over and over on your videos.

    My question is why did the IRS take so long to trip on you when you were so verbal about it for years? The answer screams that they blantantly set you up for a major fall. How do I know this? Duuuhhh!!! If they were so “righteous” they would have nailed you from the gate!! I personally have been a victim of corrupt law when I was married to a Hells Angel @ 30 years ago. Was I guilty, absolutely not!! I was a teacher. Did I know what was happening, absolutely not (although I did find out very quickly). I was teaching. Was my good name & reputation used & smeared by the law? In a heartbeat!! The law figured my name & reputation as a good scape goat to further their adgenda since I was a square (did not do drugs, racketeering, extortion, etc) and resided in squaresville USA. Why was I a square attracted to a Hells Angel? I loved (& still do) to ride Harleys!! My hubby adored me & treated me like a queen. Being a woman, I could not resist. Besides at that time, I had been backsliden since an early teen. Squares are attractive to Hells Angels as wives. If you had a square wife, you were the envy of your fellow patch holder as most square women were either terrified of them or would not associate with them via a 10 foot pole. Why am I alive after all that? I would not be if our L-rd was not hep!!!

    So why is it that everyone talks you know what about the IRS, the government, etc. but then bows down to their every whim? During the counter-culture revolution, we knew & publically stated we were being lied to. BUT when it came time for our children to attend public school, we sent them to hear the same lies all over again with our blessings. I say if we were lied to, why did we think our children would not be lied to? In reality the public school system is used by most parents as what they consider to be a “FREE babysitter”. I know this to be true as I have been a childcare provider/homeschooler/educator for over 30 years. Parents have admitted to me they do not want to pay for education after the preschool years & are willing to sacrafice their children to aviod it. Parents have also admitted they cannot deal having their children around them 24/7 so they send them to public school to “babysit” so the parent can do their own thing.

    Folks like you who have come to the forefront to battle the ignorance of the masses is what this nation & the world needs to wake us up from our stupor!! I am thankful for your ministry Kent reguardless of the outcome.

    I must admit though that I do not want to go to jail at my age having been there @ 30 years ago which was a great mental strain on me. Had I been convicted, I know I would have lost my mind as I had a most difficult time keeping it while I was in jail. Throwing up & diarrhea due to incarcerated emotional trauma 24/7 is not my idea of well being. For many years I had nightmares of jail. My heart aches for Jo as I was in her shoes once. My heart dies for your grandchildren who love & adore you both.

    Please know I consider it a priviledge to own, teach on & pass out copies of your videos. I also consider it a priviledge to be a sister in Christ.

    You & yours will be in the prayers of my homeschool class. I teach 9 children (only 1 is mine) grades K -12. We center our science curriculum around your videos.

    Thankfully continuing in His grip all these years,

    Cindy Sue Calkins

  149. mattmitt January 25, 2007 12:28 pm Reply

    Said this at 2:51pm:

    Wow, it’s all coming clear now. The judge is a liberal activist, that’s why there is an unnecessary 10 year sentence instead of simply a penalty/fine/pay back taxes sentence. Gee whiz, I wish the court system had better oversight and could rid themselves of biased judges.

    Unfortunately, you people have worn out the term “activist judge” by applying it in every case that’s ruled against your misguided version of Christianity. Stop making excuses for this fraud of a human being.

  150. EndTimes January 25, 2007 1:06 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Discovery Institue Part I)

    My scientific colleagues use 0.95 confidence limits as a test of truth but deny evidence with much greater confidence levels as not true when it comes to the creation issue. In this, they become statistical hypocrites that will not accept the miracles of creation as not being by chance alone when mathematically the statistical probability of that exceeds the scientifically defined boundary of impossibility (10 to the – 50th power). In other words, if scientists were honest to the statistical probabilities of even simple biologic systems, the truth would ring out of our academic halls that evolution is impossible by scientifically defined convention. In fact, the shear magnitude of these statistical probabilities exceeds the theoretical definition of impossible by huge margins. Sir Fred Hoyle speaks much more eloquently of this subject than I do, but of course I can not agree with his outer-space, UFO solutions to these statistical evolutionary conundrums.

    Previously, you commented about the “infamous” ID/creation/evolution trial in Dover Pennsylvania last year. You stated that the ID folks wouldn’t lie would they? Yet, the Discovery Institute is anything but a friend of people like me, Dr. Hovind and those that frequent King James Bible believing churches with our belief in the literal truth of Genesis and the entire Bible. The Discovery Institute openly ridicules the Bible as a literal truth and thus I cannot conclude they are my friends. By there own admission, the Discovery Institute does not support the Bible or creationism:

    “5) Does Discovery Institute support teaching creationism?

    No. Discovery Institute is not a creationist organization, and it opposes including either creationism or the Bible in biology textbooks or science classes.”

    The French talk about an “An agent provocateur (plural: agents provocateurs, French language, “inciting agent”) is a person who secretly disrupts a group’s activities from within the group. Agents provocateurs typically represent the interests of another group, or are agents directly assigned to provoke unrest, violence, debate, or argument by or within a group while acting as a member of the group.” The Discovery Institute could certainly qualify in creation circles as such!!

    Without delving into an intolerable diatribe on the ID trial, simply put, the trial did not prove evolution or disprove creationism. The trial simply showed very clearly that the Discovery Institute had played bait and switch with the terms “creation science” in early editions of Panda and then changed word for word this with “Intelligent Design” in later editions. In addition, the trial was not a scientific investigation in that the issue was the philosophical and “constitutional” principle of “separation of church and state.” That a judge recognized the obvious frame job shouldn’t have taken all the time and energy that it did. What was decided at the end: That the discovery Institute had tried to disguise “creation science” with the words “intelligent Design” and presented it falsely as a secular, nonreligious argument. The whole premise from the Discovery Institute is simply another attack against the Bible from a different perspective. So I wouldn’t put any hope in proving God doesn’t exist by this sham court room theatrical performance in Dover Pennsylvania last year.

  151. EndTimes January 25, 2007 1:09 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Intelligent Design Part II)

    Excerpts from Judge John E. Jones III final judgement:

    “First, with regard to the bacterial flagellum, Dr. Miller pointed to peerreviewed studies that identified a possible precursor to the bacterial flagellum, a subsystem that was fully functional, namely the Type-III Secretory System. (2:8- 20 (Miller); P-854.23-854.32). Moreover, defense expert Professor Minnich admited that there is serious scientific research on the question of whether the bacterial flagellum evolved into the Type-III Secretary System, the Type-III Secretory System into the bacterial flagellum, or whether they both evolved from a common ancestor. (38:12-16 (Minnich)). None of this research or thinking involves ID. (38:12-16 (Minnich)). In fact, Professor Minnich testified about his research as follows: “we’re looking at the function of these systems and how they could have been derived one from the other. And it’s a legitimate scientific inquiry.” (38:16 (Minnich)).

    (Not much of strong philosophical brother of creation on the stand!! The scientific inquiry of the defense witness is from evolution!!)

    “Dr. Haught testified that this argument for the existence of God was advanced early in the 19th century by Reverend Paley and defense expert witnesses Behe and Minnich admitted that their argument for ID based on the “purposeful arrangement of parts” is the same one that Paley made for design. (9:7-8 (Haught); Trial Tr. vol. 23, Behe Test., 55-57, Oct. 19, 2005; Trial Tr. vol. 38, Minnich Test., 44, Nov. 4, 2005). The only apparent difference between the argument made by Paley and the argument for ID, as expressed by defense expert witnesses Behe and Minnich, is that ID’s “official position” does not acknowledge that the designer is God.”

    (when was Paley’s argument of design ever proven false!!)

    “It is notable that not one defense expert was able to explain how the supernatural action suggested by ID could be anything other than an inherently religious proposition. Accordingly, we find that ID’s religious nature would be further evident to our objective observer because it directly involves a supernatural designer.” “The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism. What is likely the strongest evidence supporting the finding of ID’s creationist nature is the history and historical pedigree of the book to which students in Dover’s ninth grade biology class are referred, Pandas. Pandas is published by an organization called FTE, as noted, whose articles of incorporation and filings with the Internal Revenue Service describe it as a religious, Christian organization. (P-461; P-28; P-566; P-633;”

    (The Pandas book was a terrible indictment of the ID theory in that the original editions had many areas that spoke of creation with later editions substituting word for word Intelligent Design)
    “By comparing the pre and post Edwards drafts of Pandas, three astonishing points emerge: (1) the definition for creation science in early drafts is identical to the definition of ID; (2) cognates of the word creation (creationism and creationist), which appeared approximately 150 times were deliberately and systematically replaced with the phrase ID; and (3) the changes occurred shortly after the Supreme Court held that creation science is religious and cannot be taught in public school science classes in Edwards.”

    Samphire, thus the connection between creationism which has already been ruled “unconstitutional” in public schools was directly transferred to the term “Intelligent Design.” Secondly, who else testified for the defense from the scientific community that had no ties to the Discovery Institute. The answer is none. The entire trial was for and against people of the Discovery Institute. An inside con job possible. Absolutely possible!!

  152. whoosanightowl January 25, 2007 1:38 pm Reply

    Talk about Christian hypocrasy, Kent Hovind got what he deserved. Doesn’t the bible say to “render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars”? It’s just one more reminder of why I left Christianity 3 years ago after 45 years of being duped and misled. The bible god is NOT real, that’s why all the faithful prayers of your followers are not being answered. And I’m not a “Christian God hater” any more than you are all “Invisible Pink Unicorn” haters, you obviously can’t hate something that doesn’t exist.

  153. EndTimes January 25, 2007 1:50 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Intelligent Design Part III)

    Perhaps we should be shocked to discover the political connections of the Discovery Institute to our government. With one hand of the government condemning creationism and another hand of the government setting up straw man arguments that are overturned by still another hand of government, the realm of intrigue and double secret agents should be considered by the church. The Lord warns us of world wide political conspiracies in Psalm 2. The Lord commands us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves in Matthew 10:16. Yes, my personal take on the Discovery Institute is that the political connections of its founder and its leaders as ventured by their own admission is an open question of the fox guarding the hen house. Please read for yourself:

    “7) What is Discovery Institute?

    Founded in 1990, the Institute is a national, non-profit, non-partisan policy and research organization, headquartered in Seattle, WA. It has programs on a variety of issues, including regional transportation development, economics and technology policy, legal reform, and bioethics. The Institute’s founder and president is Bruce Chapman, who is a former director of the United States Census Bureau, and a past American ambassador to the United Nations Organizations in Vienna. Mr. Chapman has also served as Washington State’s Secretary of State.

    8) Is Discovery Institute a religious organization?

    Discovery Institute is a secular think tank, and its Board members and Fellows represent a variety of religious traditions, including mainline Protestant, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish, and agnostic. Until recently the Chairman of Discovery’s Board of Directors was former Congressman John Miller, who is Jewish. Although it is not a religious organization, the Institute has a long record of supporting religious liberty and the legitimate role of faith-based institutions in a pluralistic society. In fact, it sponsored a program for several years for college students to teach them the importance of religious liberty and the separation of church and state.

    Samphire, my take on the Dover trial is that it is the kangaroo of all kangaroo courts and that the Discovery Institute bears witness of its true intent by its political connections and by the doublespeak of its supporters that has “put another nail in the coffin of creationism”in the minds of many people. Yet, the evidence speaks of more sinister tales than is readily apparent on the surface. I place the people at the Discovery Institute as possibly one of the most deadly and sinister enemies of the Bible ever perpetrated and I would indeed place them in the possible realm of an agent provocateur. Until proven otherwise, they do great damage to the cause of Christ and the true literal interpretation of the Scriptures. At the very least, the Discovery Institute does not speak for me nor do I place my trust in their intentions.

    My Dear Samphire, although I disagree with many of your premises, I do appreciate that you search for the answers to many difficult questions. I would simply advise you to be more skeptical of many of your own resources and perhaps you will be surprised that they do not stand to the test of the light of truth. I continue to pray for your momma’s son and that the good heart of truth that lit her life will someday light yours. Ever in kindness, Endtimes.

  154. EndTimes January 25, 2007 2:07 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Intelligent Design Part IV)

    Thank you for finding a website to prove my assertions of the damaging effect of the Discovery Institute and the true attack it places against biblical creationism. Yes, I believe that they are indeed an enemy of worthy respect against the cause of the truth of the Bible. Yes, I do consider them exactly of what I accuse them to be, an agent provocateur. See below from your web page that you referenced. This is my point exactly.


    Intelligent Design will swallow Young Earth Creationism

    In the rise of the Intelligent Design movement, an important development that has been overlooked is the degree to which it has eaten its “parent”, Young Earth Creationism, and confirmed its place as an embarrassing anachronism. This is ironic, considering Intelligent Design advocates like the Discovery Institute hold as their chief goal to drive a “wedge” between creationists and those whom they see as pushing a secular worldview. Instead, what has happened is they have split Christians with Creationist sympathies into two camps: those happy to accept the findings of Science as neutral, and even enriching to their faith, and those who mistrust much of what non-Christian academics say as driven by an anti-Christian agenda. The fact that the majority of Christians are coming down increasingly on the side of the former rather than the latter must cause Young Earth advocates night sweats. Their support, their finance, their relevance and their credibility are all being seriously assailed from within, as their demographic migrates to the comparatively less paranoid and less specious options ID presents them. Young Earthers have for some time proclaimed themselves as the guardians of the authority of the Scriptures, and as the only group able to harmonise what we see in the world around us with what is “plainly written” in the Bible through their “research” (remember that Answers in Genesis went by the name “The Creation Science Foundation” until only a decade ago for precisely this purpose). However, much of the debate about the interface between Science and Christian Faith is now conducted in terms of “Intelligent Design”, and Young Earthers are left presenting their overhead projection slides of Native American Indian rock-art depicting dinosaurs (rebuttal), the plausibility of vegetarian sharks or lions before the Fall or the amount of Salt in the Ocean (rebuttal) to increasingly informed, and therefore embarrassed, audiences.”

  155. LitBible January 26, 2007 1:01 am Reply

    I hope you do not mind, but I wrote an appeal to the Governor of Florida to pardon Kent and Jo Hovind:
    Dear Governor Crist,

    Please forgive me for this straight-forward appeal to your sense of judgment that I witness in testimony of your wisdom in the concern for civil right within your jurisdiction and in the power you have to act in the great state of Florida. I first apologize for appealing to you, from the state of Texas, where I reside as a citizen. Had I not truly sensed an injustice to a family of your great state, I would not make this request. I am speaking about and for true and equitable justice in the case of one Kent and Jo Hovind of Pensacola Florida, who I believe to be two of the finest and most honorable citizens of the United States of America, and who have, in just the last two months plus, been placed in a most desperate position of being accused by the court system of more than an error judgment they have made and have been unfairly treated, penalized, and, most recently, imprisoned in one of your state prisons. This married couple, an honorable, God-fearing, father and mother of four, and grandparents to many more, is not in any way criminal. I testify, before God, that they do not deserve to be locked up as and with hardened criminals and I appeal to you, who have the great authority vested in you, to find a pardon for their mistake.

    The judgment, if one could rightly call it such, for neglecting to withhold taxes from people who were volunteering to help them with their ministry, and whom they paid by cash to aid in their subsistence as they helped, was decided as ten years in the state prison. I cry to you for mercy in this situation and for this kind and benevolent couple. They are a pastor and wife who have faithfully served God and their community by bringing the truth before literally thousands of citizens for over 18 years. When Kent was injustly made to stay in jail, over Christmas, not be allowed to be with his wife and family and grandchildren, he turned to those real criminals around him, prayed with them, and spoke them about salvation and turning to a better life. He showed love and mercy to those around him, because that is the kind of man he is. When the judge read his tremendous sentence, that he knew was far more than anyone who made the mistake that he did, through little more than ignorance, he turned and asked that he could bear the penalty that would be given his dear wife, on top of his own. He just hated to see the travesty of the mother of his four children, that sweet dear lady, notwithstanding that which was being put upon him, sending her to a prison at the cruel mercy of those who frequent its presence.

    I cry out to you, from the depth of my heart, for this couple. I ask you, no, I plead with you, to find pardon and release of the Hovinds that they my attempt to begin to restore their life to the once fruitful condition wherein it existed. Please do not allow this couple to sit in prison even a moment beyond when you read this appeal. They, and I, are at your mercy and, I trust in your good conscience.

    P.S. I have attached an explanation of their charges and their desperate responses from a more legalese perspective here:

    May God bless you is my prayer,
    Michael Aprile

  156. justleo7 January 26, 2007 9:27 am Reply

    Hello to all:

    I am fully confident that this case will be drastically reduced to the time it takes to overturn it, or reduced to several months considering time spent. No I am not an attorney..would that matter! Lol..Indeed not. I,… like all of you were hurt and angered by the fact that such a flimsy case was bolstered by such an incompetent judge, who re-wrote the jury instructions to aid the prosecutions argument.

    Having thought about this, I think it is in the Lords providence that this has happened…yes. Dr. Hovind will have a great impact on the prision for the short time he is their. And God is always working on our character in all trial and tribulations…so this is also difficult but necesscery too.

    As to End-Times…well Hillary is not President yet!…But we are on the cusp of The Rapture, but I think gracefully God will allow some persecution among us easy living christians here in the USA. We have had it easy relative to those who die for their faith. So a little tribualtion is good to wake us up, before the Master comes. Persecution helps us refine our characters in ways that we would not normally be able or willing to do. Greater the persecution the better ressurection or reward.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to be cavilear about this situation, as I know this has caused great hardship, pain, and gives fuel to all the mockers against Dr.Hovind and his family, and frankly to all believers to a lesser degree ofcourse. But I am confident that Our Lord Jesus is coming back very very soon….I mean I think we could be just 1 administration away….not much more. So we need to be rejoicing and be busy, and repenting as well. Our brother Dr. Hovind has been persecuted and he is standing up to the persecuters with courage and grace from Jesus. We need to do likewise.

    Dr.Hovind…I don’t know if you have access to these posts…But I want to thank you personally for your phone calls when I had questions, and the positive impact you have had on my son Brock who has stuffed lockers with over 300 cds and tracks with your debates and brother Ray Comforts tracks inspite of being hauled down to the principals office for it!…Dr. Hovind, Your current confinement is temporary but it is inspiring our family to Press On in Christ!

    I will be praying every day and we wll be fasting as well

    Press On
    Robert Leonardo

  157. warocuya January 26, 2007 2:32 pm Reply

    To the skeptics,

    Where were you when Kent Hovind had his radio program? The call were free but you couldn’t handle Dr. Hovind. Hmmmm.

    He handled IRS questions, finances and anything else you could think of.

    Anyway, you guys are brave.

  158. bloghog January 26, 2007 2:58 pm Reply

    Wow 170 posts and about 90% of the people still fooled by Hovind’s scientific lies. Anyone want to buy some bridges?

  159. CSN January 26, 2007 5:29 pm Reply

    Kent, Eric, and family,
    I am greatly saddened by your situation and wish you and your family God’s strength and guidance. I pray Almighty God will not only strengthen you, but that He will meet all your needs and will continue to bless your crucial and much needed ministry – that others will receive Him as their Lord and Savior. May God richly bless and comfort you and shorten your time of turmoil.
    A brother in Christ,
    Bob K.

  160. Maturekid January 26, 2007 6:36 pm Reply

    Samphire, eecreationist –

    A couple more things for you to look up and ponder for another perspective.

    If the IRS tax code is the law as darling asserts, then there is a problem.

    Prior to 1954, churches were not subject to taxation or regulation under the IRS tax codes. Then Senator Lyndon B Johnson (a guy my Mom doesn’t think highly of) inserted into the tax code regulations that inhibit the ability of a church to speak on political candidates. This was his method of silencing the expression of those in the pulpits as they didn’t do him any favors. Unless I’m wrong, this is now known as the 501.3 c which is something Hovind opposes.

    Prior to 1984, churches were not subject to collecting taxes on their employees. This is in all likelihood directly tied to 501.3 c rulings but I’m not certain.

    Here is the problem: US Constitution – Bill of Rights – Amendment I reads as follows:
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

    (Do note this is a one way thing not the fad of “separation of church and state” of the last 50 years. Congress is restricted. Not the expression of the religions namely the Christian denominations.)

    So if the tax code is law, what Senator Lyndon Johnson did directly conflicts with “prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,”. That is why this is being challenged in the Supreme Court level and legislation is pending to undo these sections of the code and other executive branch codes being enforced in ways they weren’t meant to be.

    As Hovind freely states, the church his ministry affiliates with is not signed under the 501.3 c. Makes this more fun and complex doesn’t it?

  161. Maturekid January 26, 2007 6:44 pm Reply

    Oh on a different note that is odd, I would like to thank Samphire for being civil in his positions. True many may not agree with him, but he’s come a ways since picking on people’s grammar.

    To those others who want to bash (eh hem – Matty-boy, CMarychurch, etc.) watch your words. If they are written in the wrong spirit or in ignorance, they only serve to make you look bad. I could go on but I’ll wait and see what heat I draw for this.

    Civility and respect for the viewpoint of others should be held by all. Doesn’t mean we need to agree, but we can disagree respectfully.

  162. bobbright January 26, 2007 6:54 pm Reply

    Samphire Wrote:

    “The financial position is worse than you might think because, assuming a similar level of business as the previous 3 years, there will be a further $450k or more to pay for the years 2004 to 2006 together, doubtless, with further penalties and interest”

    Mr. Samphire I’ve got bad news for you. Probably about 20% of the employers in our great United States don’t properly withhold taxes on their employees simply because they don’t know any better, and when and if they are corrected they simply make up the difference with penalties and interest, no one goes to jail for 10 years. I live in the sunny state of California with endless fields of Oranges, strawberries, and Avocados. No caucasions pick the fruit in those fields and when the land owners get called to the carpet every decade or so they simply make ammends WITHOUT jail time. It logically doesn’t make sense to work off debt in jail where you can’t earn income, plus it’s an unprecidented sentence. Judge Casey Rodger’s is appropriately titled a “liberal activist” when she administers crazy sentences on someone like Kent Hovind’s whos exercises of free speech may conflict with the interest of her ex-clients, the pro bono strip club people. Usually the crimes of strip club workers usually don’t entail free speech. As a judge she should be fair to everyone, from preachers to stippers, across the board. It’s just common sense, thus the need for Bill O’Reilly to get involved.

  163. Samphire January 26, 2007 7:59 pm Reply

    Hi, Endtimes,

    How you doing?

    Your are correct in almost every particular – except in your conclusion. The Dover trial did not consider the question as to whether or not God exists (how could it?) so what’s your point?

    “Intelligent Design” is simply a God of the Gaps excuse for an argument. As time goes by the gaps get filled in and Gappy God gets smaller and more disconnected. But only in a scientific sense. If you leave God out of Science then you can have both God and Science as separate entities – Stephen Gould’s dual magisteria – if that is what you want. Personally, I ascribe to the ideas of St Augustine “Truth does not contradict truth.” and Biker who said “Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth.” I’ll stick with the Godellian idea of truth over faith any day.

    And, by the way, to avoid any misunderstanding, the “sham court room theatrical performance” was enacted by the defendants and not the plaintiffs.

    In your second post you ask when was Paley’s argument of design ever proven false. Well, now would be as good a time as any. Paley’s watch is not the product of self-replication and is therefore irrelevant to the TOE.

    As to your final paragraph, why would the scientific community testify on behalf of the Discovery Institute? That is as stupid (apologies for the personal abuse) a question as asking why did no-one from Nicole Simpson’s family testify on behalf of OJ? Isn’t the answer obvious?

  164. furious1 January 26, 2007 7:59 pm Reply


    What is laughable is that you worship the faith of evolution that cannot save you eternally. When I first read your post I thought to myself, “Oh, yeah?! Well I cannot wait until you are begging Jesus for a drop of water to quench your thirst as you burn in Hell.” But, I now realize that you are right. There are many laughable notions out there. Theories, unproven. Thought processes best left alone. And you know what? You are the one that Satan is laughing at. We do not worship Dr. Hovind. We love, support, admonish in love, pray for and have hope. If you do not like what he is saying and doing, then do what you and the other blinded, hateful bloggers have been doing in the past and TURN A BLIND EYE AND A DEAF EAR to us Believers. You all have already stated your feelings and your disgust for our support, so get off of the blog and stay off. You are only doing it for attention and self-gratification! This blog while for discussion is not a platform for your hateful diatribes.

  165. allstarboyscout January 26, 2007 8:51 pm Reply

    i really like what CSE has been producing and its really a great help for my ministry.creation science here in the philippines (i think) doesnt exist but i believe i can reach a lot of people.we look up to you folks bcoz of your love 4God and the KJV bible.ill be praying for your day and you eric on handling the ministry.God bless!!!

  166. RobG January 26, 2007 11:59 pm Reply

    My Friends. Let’s say Dr Kent Kovind’s information is correct.
    That not withstanding:
    Dr. Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, withdrew $430,500 from AmSouth Bank between July 20, 2001, and Aug. 9, 2002.
    Dr. Kent Hovind (we must agree that he is an intellegent man, even if some doubt his Doctorate degree authenticy) professed not to understand why he is being prosecuted. He said: “I still don’t understand what I’m being charged for and who is charging me.”
    Dr. Kent Hovind Kent Hovind, had been sparring with the IRS for at least 17 years on his claims that he is employed by God, receives no income, has no expenses and owns no property. (That is a very good trick if you can get away with it. You own nothing and withdraw $430,500 from a bank account in who’s name -GOD?
    I am sorry you and your wife belong in jail and Eric if you don’t take control and not listen to Mr Glen Stoll you also shall fall.

    I pray for all of you. I believe the world was made by God. It would be stupidto believe otherwise. However, I also believe Dr Hovind and his wife belong in jail to believe otherwise would also be stupid.
    The love of money is the root of all evil. It is harder for a rich man to enter into the kinkdom of God then a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Sigh! To love money over God! How dare you, Dr Hovind and how dare all you other people close your eyes to the facts.
    One more time … they withdrew $430,500 from AmSouth Bank between July 20, 2001, and Aug. 9, 2002. That my friends was for “payroll for employees” therefore TAXES must be paid.
    Yea, maybe he should not have been given a 10 year sentence because “Other people do the same thing and only pay fines” But my friends, God is watching and he will Judge far harsher than any Earthly Judge. I judge not … I only pray!
    Open your eyes, be not blinded by false prophets, preaching the truth, only to obtain wealth and earthly riches.

    Dr Kent Hovind should get out of jail! However, He should also repent and do the morally and legally correct thing …. Pay taxes for the vast amounts of money he is receiving for working in the name of my GOD! Hate the crime not the criminal.

    Prayers for everyone, peace to everyone.

  167. brinleegl January 27, 2007 12:02 am Reply

    Dear Dr Hovind

    I just found out about your sentencing and can’t even begin to imagine how this whole process has taken place without me hearing anything about it. I found out from a friend that you had been put in jail and then ran a search to find this blog site. I wanted to write you something encouraging although I’m really having a hard time coming up with anything from the Bible that hasn’t already been posted or something you’ve already read a million times while you have nothing but time on your hands there in jail.

    My wife and I lead a high school Bible study and we’ve been going through your seminar. Your work is so Awesome! I’ve been so encouraged to learn more about true Biblical perspective on the earth. You cover all these things I believe are true but never really had the facts I needed to be able to boldly discuss these truths with other believers or non-believers.

    The kids have really gotten into it as well. They have all mentioned how much they wished they had seen your materials before they were taught so much trash under the name of science. I’m really dreading telling them about this whole jail thing (if they haven’t heard yet). I know that they are going to have a million questions that I can’t answer about what happened. You are definitely highly respected around here, even though you come off a little arrogant at times with your delivery. I know that it seems so crystal clear to you that everything you’re presenting is pretty much obvious, but I think sometimes you forget that we’ve all been so brainwashed with so-called “science” that we don’t even question what we’ve learned.

    We have all been encouraged by your work and it has definitely strengthened our faith. God has been using you in such an awesome way! Also thanks to CSE’s generosity and willingness to share the gospel with regards to copying your material, we have given away several copies to others who have been strengthened and encouraged as well.

    I will continue to lift you and your family up in prayer Dr Dino. I have no idea what God’s plans are for your future but you have definitely made good use of the gifts He’s given you so far and I’m sure you will continue. God’s plans always turn out awesome so hang on!

    In Christ
    Gary L Brinlee

  168. EndTimes January 27, 2007 12:41 am Reply

    Dear Samphire,

    On January 25th, you stated:

    “Hi, Endtimes How would KH paying over his employees’ tax, social security and Medicare contributions together with his 6.2% employer’s contribution have offended against his right to practice his religion? Perhaps I am missing something.”

    I stand in humility that the pages and pages of diatribe that I have written in this blog have not produced an immediate repudiation by you of all vestiges of impure American civil rights violations by our “democratic” government. What am I but a potted plant that has placed forth many arguments to no avail in your education on American ideals and of the great notion of fighting and dying for that document that was forged with the blood of our forefathers at your forefather’s hapless demise from bullets fired form behind trees into waiting waves of eager soldiers ready to die for the good king George. Have I travailed in diligent study for nothing in that you should not understand the simple constitutional principles that freed mankind from the yoke of tyrannical government and are now today abrogated piece by piece and line by line. Shall we say to those that died as such in presumed vanity if only Samphire does not understand these simple principles that had their origin in your own country so many years ago. To what avail have I laboured that I have not imbued such innate knowledge of liberty and equality that is now lacking on your part that you would ask amiss as above.

    Let me summarize again what I believe is the cardinal feature of this entire case and why I support Dr. Hovind in standing for the constitutional principles of freedom of religion that was once delivered to this country and honored by the approved authorities and representatives who were duly elected and appointed to defend the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. What Dr. Hovind was convicted of was simply the way that all churches in America did business for over 200 years until January 1, 1984. As of December 31, 1983, there was no law that required a church to be a tax collector by virtue of the freedoms guaranteed in our constitution. Since that time, our government has gone against the constitutional principle of separation of church and state and now taxes God without the legal (i.e. constitutional) authority to do so in accord with the many original intent documents of our founding fathers. This is the fight that many in America such as Dr. Hovind have endeavored in a desperate battle for the liberties and privileges once freely given to us, and now is so easily shredded in shrouds of political intrigue and legal hogtying. This is the same spirit that led Henry David Thoreau to question the legality of a poll tax which subsequently was found to be unconstitutional and was overturned. The simple question put forth is does the goverment now have a new authority to tax God that was not recognized for the first two hundred years or is the taxation of the church an unconstitutional and as of such unlawful abuse of power? This is the issue at hand.

    Freedom, a principle that came forth from the Magna Charta, but alas is now only an historic memory in so many ways. This is the new America of today, “the land of the fee and the home of the slave.” The power to tax is readily noted as the power to also destroy by many that write on such things. My dear Samphire, this is the point that you are missing. Liberty and justice for all, which we now see slipping away is such a precious commodity that when gone will not return again without the shedding of much blood. Yes, Samphire, there are some things worthy of sacrifice. Dr. Hovind is standing on the constitutional principles once brought forth by Madison, Washington and Jefferson. Yet today, the principles of freedom are being replaced with the repressive principles of the regimes of Hitler, Stalin and Lenin. A great and terrible tragedy awaits the world as we all move towards the prophesied one world government. May God again have mercy on our souls.

    Please see my previous posts on CSE Decmber 20/ATW 144 Comments, December 24 at 8:20pm; December 28 at 1:23pm; at 4:03pm; and at 10:09pm to refresh your memory on these issues that I have already commented on. Most kindly, EndTimes.

  169. ReceivingRed January 27, 2007 1:36 am Reply

    A True Story to think about in these trying times

    Don’t become bitter at God …… This is a True Missionary Story ……

    In 1921, two young couples in Stockholm, Sweden, answered God’s call to the African mission field. They were members of Philadelphia Pentecostal Church, which sent out missionaries to locales over the world. During one particular missions service, these two couples received a burden to go to the Belgian Congo, which is now Zaire.

    Their names were David and Svea Flood and Joel and Bertha Erickson. Svea Flood was only four-feet-eight-inches tall, and she was a well-known singer in Sweden. But both couples gave up everything to lay down their lives for the gospel.

    When they arrived in the Belgian Congo, they reported to the local mission station. Then they took machetes and literally hacked their way into the Congo’s insect-infested interior. David and Svea had a two-year-old son, David Jr., and they had to carry him on their backs. Along the way, both families caught malaria. But they kept going forward with great zeal, ready to be martyrs for the Lord.

    Finally, they reached a certain village in the interior. Yet, to their surprise, the people wouldn’t let them enter. They told the missionaries, “We can’t allow any white people here, or our gods will be offended.” So the families went to a second village – but they were rejected there also.

    At this point, there were no other villages around. The worn-down families had no choice but to settle. So they hacked out a clearing in the middle of a mountain jungle and built mud huts, where they made their homes.

    As the months went by, they all suffered from loneliness, sickness and malnutrition. Little David Jr. became sickly. And they had almost no interaction with any of the villagers.

    Finally, after about six months, Joel and Bertha Erickson decided to return to the mission station. They urged the Floods to do the same, but Svea couldn’t travel because she’d just gotten pregnant. And now her malaria had become worse. Besides all that, David said, “I want my child born in Africa. I’ve come to give my life here.” So the Floods simply waved goodbye as their friends began the one-hundred-mile hike back.

    For several months Svea endured a raging fever. Yet all that time, she ministered faithfully to a little boy who came to see them from one of the nearby villages. The boy was the Floods’ only convert. He brought the family fruit, and as Svea ministered to him, he simply smiled back at her.

    Eventually, Svea’s malaria got so bad she became bedridden. When the time came for her to give birth, she delivered a healthy baby girl. But within a week she was at the point of death. In her final moments, she whispered to David, “Call our girl Aina.” Then she died.

    David Flood was badly shaken by his wife’s death. Summoning all his strength, he took a wooden box and made a casket for Svea. Then, in a primitive grave on the mountainside, he buried his beloved wife.

    As he stood beside her grave, he looked down at his young son beside him. Then he heard his baby daughter’s cries from the mud hut. And suddenly, bitterness filled his heart. An anger rose up in him – and he couldn’t control it. He flew into a rage, crying, “Why did you allow this, God? We came here to give our lives! My wife was so beautiful, so talented. And here she lies, dead at twenty-seven.

    “Now I have a two-year-old son I can hardly care for, let alone a baby girl. And after more than a year in this jungle, all we have to show for it is one little village boy who probably doesn’t understand what we’ve told him. You’ve failed me, God. What a waste of life!”

    At that point, David Flood hired some local tribesmen as guides and took his children to the mission station. When he saw the Ericksons, he blurted out angrily, “I’m leaving! I can’t handle these children alone. I’m taking my son with me back to Sweden – but I’m leaving my daughter here with you.” And with that, he left Aina for the Ericksons to raise.

    All the way back to Stockholm, David Flood stood on deck and seethed at God. He’d told everyone he was going to Africa to be a mrtyr – to win people to Christ, no matter what the cost. And now he was returning a defeated and broken man. He believed he’d been faithful – but that God had rewarded him with total neglect.

    When he arrived in Stockholm, he decided to go into the import business to seek his fortune. And he warned everyone around him never to mention God in his presence. When they did, he flew into a rage, the veins popping out on his neck. Eventually, he began drinking heavily.

    Shortly after he left Africa, his friends the Ericksons died suddenly (possibly poisoned by a local village chief). So, little Aina was handed to an American couple – some dear people I know named Arthur and Anna Berg. The Bergs took Aina with them to a village called Massisi, in the northern Congo. There they began calling her “Aggie.” And soon little Aggie learned the Swahili language and played with the Congo children.

    Alone much of the time, Aggie learned to play games of imagination. She imagined she had four brothers and a sister, and she gave them all imaginary names. She would set a table for her brothers and talk to them. And she would imagine her sister continually looking for her.

    When the Bergs went on furlough to America, they took Aggie with them, to the Minneapolis area. As it turned out, they ended up staying there. Aggie grew up to marry a man named Dewey Hurst, who later became president of Northwest Bible College, the Assemblies of God school in Minneapolis.
    For Years as an Adult, Aggie Tried to Contact Her Father
    But to No Avail!

    Aggie never knew that her father had remarried – this time to Svea’s younger sister, who had no heart for God. And now he had five children besides Aggie – four sons and a daughter (just as Aggie had imagined). By this time, David Flood had become a total alcoholic, and his eyesight was failing badly.

    For forty years Aggie tried to locate her father – but her letters were never answered. Finally, the Bible school gave her and her husband round-trip tickets to Sweden. This would give her the chance to find her father personally.

    After crossing the Atlantic, the couple spent a day’s layover in London. They decided to take a walk, so they strolled by the Royal Albert Hall. To their joy, a Pentecostal Assemblies of God missions convention was being held. They went inside, where they heard a black preacher testifying of the great works God was doing in Zaire – the Belgian Congo!

    Aggie’s heart leaped. After the meeting, she approached the preacher and asked, “Did you ever know the missionaries David and Svea Flood?” He answered, “Yes. Svea Flood led me to the Lord when I was just a boy. They had a baby girl, but I don’t know what happened to her.” Aggie exclaimed, “I’m the girl! I’m Aggie – Aina!”

    When the preacher heard this, he clasped Aggie’s hands, hugged her and wept with joy. Aggie could hardly believe that this man was the little boy convert her mother had ministered to. He had grown up to be a missionary evangelist to his own country – which now included 110,000 Christians, 32 mission stations, several Bible schools and a 120-bed hospital.

    The next day Aggie and Dewey left for Stockholm – and word had already spread there that they were coming. By this time Aggie knew she had four brothers and a sister. And to her surprise, three of her brothers greeted her at the hotel. She asked them, “Where’s David, my older brother?” They merely pointed across the lobby to a lone figure sitting in a chair. Her brother, David Jr., was a shriveled-up, gray-haired man. Like his father, he’d grown embittered and had nearly destroyed his life with alcohol.

    When Aggie asked about her father, her brothers flushed with anger. They all hated him. None of them had talked to him in years.

    Then Aggie asked, “What about my sister?” They gave her a telephone number, and Aggie called it immediately. Her sister answered – but when Aggie told her who she was, the line suddenly went dead. Aggie tried calling back but got no answer.

    In a little while, however, her sister arrived at the hotel and threw her arms around Aggie. She told her, “All my life I’ve dreamed about you. I used to spread out a map of the world, put a toy car on it, and pretend to drive everywhere to find you.”

    Aggie’s sister also despised her father, David Flood. But she promised to help Aggie find him. So they drove to an impoverished area of Stockholm, where they entered a rundown building. When they knocked on the door, a woman let them in.

    Inside, liquor bottles lay everywhere. And lying on a cot in the corner was her father – the one-time missionary, David Flood. He was now seventy-three years old and suffering from diabetes. He’d also had a stroke, and cataracts covered both of his eyes.

    Aggie fell to his side, crying, “Dad, I’m your little girl – the one you left in Africa.” The old man turned and looked at her. Tears formed in his eyes. He answered, “I never meant to give you away. I just couldn’t handle you both.” Aggie answered, “That’s okay, Daddy. God took care of me.”

    Suddenly, her father’s face darkened. “God didn’t take care of you!” he raged. “He ruined our whole family! He led us to Africa and then betrayed us. Nothing ever came of our time there. It was a waste of our lives!”

    Aggie then told him about the black preacher she’d just met in London – and how the country had been evangelized through him. “It’s all true, Daddy,” she said. “Everybody knows about that little boy convert. The story has been in all the newspapers.”

    Suddenly the Holy Spirit fell on David Flood – and he broke. Tears of sorrow and repentance flowed down his face – and God restored him.

    Shortly after their meeting, David Flood died. And although he was restored to the Lord, he left only ruin behind. Besides Aggie, his legacy was five children – all unsaved and tragically embittered.

    Aggie wrote down the whole story. Yet as she worked on it, she developed cancer. Just after she finished writing it, she went to be with the Lord.

  170. jfsog January 27, 2007 1:48 am Reply

    Another G’day from another Jonathan from Australia! I was deeply grieved when a day or two ago I heard the news of Dr Hovind’s imprisonment. Dr Hovind has been a great personal inspiration to me and many of my friends through his unabashed stand for the Truth of God’s Word. I had the great priviledge of meeting Dr Hovind in person in July last year, and was VERY impressed with his impartiality and love for great and small. Kids and grandparents, men, women, boys and girls – all were worthy of his care and attention as he seeks to bring Christ to others. His generosity touched me, and I left inspired and with plenty of ideas on helping propogate Truth in my corner of the globe.

    Keep up the good work, friends, family, and fellow-labourers in that greatest Cause! Lots of love from Australia.

    Jonathan Field
    Melbourne, Australia

  171. marpa January 27, 2007 3:25 am Reply

    Eric, your attituda and comments are quite an example of how to behave in the midst of the storm. You own faith is an encouragement to us all. I will pray for you as you begin to “fill” your father’s shoes. Rest assured that God will be with you and also with Dr. Kent. I pray for Joe that she will not be going to jail but instead will be allowed to stay home. This entire things has come to knock my wind out. I can’t begin to tell you how much this ministry has impacted my life and the lives of so many around me.

    Thank you.
    (There is a topic on Dr. Hovind’s trial on our web forum at

  172. Matthew January 27, 2007 8:37 am Reply

    To those who believe that Kent Hovind’s sentence was too harsh, would you rather he got the 288 years? Also, remember that Jo Hovind is awaiting hers.

    Interesting comment, since Kent Hovind has suggested that the teaching of evolution is linked to the Columbine shooting. Does this mean that the teaching of creationism leads to tax evasion?

  173. sjvanrensburg January 27, 2007 12:04 pm Reply

    Dear Eric, Dr Hovind and the Hovind family

    There is so much to say… We in South Africa got your Creation-DVD’s from a Christian friend, distributed it to lots of other friends and family members. I can only say that you must keep on with the awesome work that you all are doing for the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus! Since July 2006 we’ve been praying for you all, and still do, and wish we were there in the US just to encourage you all in person… I could carry on for hours, but, please know this: God always has the bigger picture, that which we can’t see. Everything will turn out for the better for everyone that loves Him, even if everything else look dark and when there is only tears and hardship.

    Maybe you’ve heard the amazing life story of a Chinese Christian named Brother Yun who has been imprisoned, tortured and persecuted for many years for his faith in Jesus. I’ve heard some of his sermons here in South Africa, and got hold of his book about his life through all his prolonged sufferings. I would like to urge you to get hold of his book “The Heavenly Man” by Brother Yun and Paul Hattaway. This book will defenitely be an inspiration for your family during this difficult times. You can read about him at

    I pray that the Holy Spirit will be your Comforter, Helper and Guide and that you will experience remarkable peace, joy, hope and love, that will exceed your highest expectations.

    Greetings in the Name of our Lord and Saviour! – Mrs S van Rensburg, South Africa

  174. adriennegilbert January 27, 2007 1:18 pm Reply


    It’s so good to hear the news. I am happy to know a few more details, and continue to pray fervently for your dad, mom, family, and CSE/DAL family. I would like to find out where we may contact your dad now, as I assume his G20 address is old.

    May God continue to bless you all so abundantly, more than we ask or think. We look forward to what future blessings He has in store for you.

    Adrienne Gilbert

  175. Maturekid January 27, 2007 1:23 pm Reply


    I would recommend you read the post I did above. Kent Hovind is correct in his statements regarding the Columbine shooters. I would recommend you read the case files on it. It can be found here:

    Scroll down to the section labeled “What equipment Klebold and Harris carried with them”. In there you’ll find this statement: “Harris, also wearing a black trench coat, wore a white T-shirt underneath that said, “Natural Selection.” He had a Hi-Point 9-mm carbine rifle on a strap hidden under his coat. Harris pulled a Savage – Springfield 12-gauge pump shotgun from one of the bags the gunmen carried to the top of the hill. Again, both its stock and barrel were cut off, reducing the measurement of the entire gun to 26 inches.”

    Key words being – “Natural Selection”. They were also well known to have professed racism, white supremacy, and a fondness for Hitler and the Nazis. I won’t rehash that topic. Study what Hitler did really close – they did. Hovind’s conclusion seems quite spot on. I’d refer you to the entire title of Darwin’s book.

    Now I’ve got a question for you Matthew. Since you like to spout off, please answer just this one question. You’ve said in previous postings that you do not think Kent Hovind was qualified to speak on the Origins of Life topic because his degree or focus of study is theology. Fine, that is your opinion. It is also very apparent that you are an ardent Darwinist or Neo-Darwinist. Again, that is your opinion. Question: How can you rationalize your disdain of Kent Hovind speaking on science when the only degree Charles Darwin had was in theology as well? Hmmmn? Gotta play fair. Yes Darwin studied under Sedgwick and Henslow but that didn’t grant him a degree. Similarly, Hovind has spent lots of time studying his topics as well.

    Again, I implore you and anyone else to retain civility and respect. If I were to be rude, I’d make a commentary about you and Weird Al’s latest parody of Green Day. But I will not.

  176. EndTimes January 27, 2007 1:56 pm Reply

    Dear bloghog,

    You persist in making very dogmatic statements without showing forth any supporting evidence. I would suggest that if you want to play on this site, evidence would be a good place to start.

    First, please tell me which scientific lies Dr. Hovind is guilty of committing?

    Second, you stated that a medical doctor who doesn’t understand evolution is a very dangerous doctor indeed. Are you a medical doctor that understands the principles of medical treatment and how evolution does or doesn’t relate to medical decisions made on a daily basis? I am a medical doctor and a devout creationist that came to this position after I had obtained my degrees. I cannot think of a single instance where my views on creationism and evolution have altered my practice of medicine in any case ever except in that fact of just how precious life is. In this only do I take forth a change in my thinking on medical decisions. It would shock the common man to understand how pitifully little a majority of my collegues regard the sanctity of life. I pray that your own doctors believe in the sanctity of life when you face the fact of sickness and death which all will someday. On that day, you would be in a much better position to have a doctor like me that places your life above the bottom line dollar that many doctors now address. Rationing takes place every day and the medical care in America is much different than what it used to be. Doctors judge on a regular basis treatments given or withheld based on their determination of the quality of life of a particular patient. This my friend is the end result of evolutionary thinking and the survival of the fittest. This I find very dangerous and one day the mercy and grace of the Lord will give way to the hard decisions of limited resources just as we once saw in Nazi Germany. This is already becoming a reality today. My dear bloghog, you need to rethink again that which is dangerous because you surely have not judged the situation correctly.

    I try my best to practice according to accepted standards of treatment as best as I am able. These standards of treatment and diagnosis have not changed from the time before when I believed in evolution and after I was converted to the truth. Evolution is not my helper in accomplishing this task. Your statement is again lacking in substance.

    Third, I pray that you will someday understand the meaning of answered prayer in your own life. Simply because we hope and pray that God will apply our will to any given situation does not in the least limit God if he chooses another path. There are many examples of this in the Bible, Old and New Testament that I would invite you to know the truth someday. There was a time that I ridiculed Bible believing people and actively persecuted them for their beliefs. One of my interns prayed for his patients at the bedside which was the utmost revolting thing I could contemplate at the time. Well, 3 years later, I got to spend one week with this same man on Army maneuvers and tell him how I had become a born again believer. It is one of my fondest and most cherished memories. I have always wondered who it was that prayed for my soul before I was saved. I have an idea it was the very man that I had persecuted but he never told me. I pray for you, bloghog (goodness, I hope that your parents gave you a better name than that) and that you will someday know the Lord’s goodness and not His severity. With kindness, EndTimes.

  177. EndTimes January 27, 2007 2:12 pm Reply

    Dear mizlee,

    You stated in a prior post:

    “But no, you silly childlike worshippers keep sending the money and thinking that your prayers are a good way to spend your time. This kind of magical thinking would be laughable if it weren’t so dangerous.”

    A question that I have to ask is how do you know that my faith in the Lord is “magical thinking” when instead I came to a belief in the Bible and my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ of Nazareth through the reasoning of Bible prophecy. In such, there is much irrefutable evidence that I would invite you to explore and if you wish, disprove if you can. God Himself sets up Bible prophecy as a test in Isaiah 46:9-11. Please prove this one set of verses false and I will renounce my belief in Jesus. Alas, you nor anyone else will be able to accomplish this task for His Word is Truth.

    I ask again, what is dangerous about people like Dr. Hovind praying and preaching for your salvation that you would avoid all eternity in the fires of hell. No mizlee, your mindset is actually that which is dangerous and will be tested at the white throne judgement seat if you fail to repent and call upon Jesus as your Saviour. There is no other choice. In kindness, EndTimes.

  178. EndTimes January 27, 2007 2:21 pm Reply

    Dear JMeert

    You said this at 9:00pm:

    “You know what they say, do the crime, do the time. This is nothing more than a guy breaking the law and getting busted. Clinging to god for salvation won’t excuse the criminal actions of the Hovinds (Kent, Eric, Jo et al.). They all have a record if you look through escambia county. All have flaunted laws and been busted. Kent’s simply earning his just desserts.”

    I would remind you of a simple truth from the Bible that you will be judged by God in the same manner that you have judged others. David brought forth a fourfold judgement that God enforced against him when the prophet Nathan confronted David for his sins against Uriah. In Matthew 7:1-2, you are convicting your own soul in stating “You know what they say, do the crime, do the time.” Are you prepared to do the eternal time demanded as payment for your sins? If not, I would suggest learning why Dr. Hovind will never be punished in hell fires even if he spends ten years in a manmade prison whether it is right or wrong; yet you my friend are in danger of eternal damnation if you refuse to accept Christ as your Saviour. I would counsel you to choose wisely my friend. In kindness, EndTimes.

  179. EndTimes January 27, 2007 2:30 pm Reply

    Dear whoosanightowl,

    Please ask me in one hundred years whether heaven and hell are real. I think that by then you will have found that both are real. Good luck in eternity. With kind regards, EndTimes.

  180. samuel January 27, 2007 3:00 pm Reply

    Hello again all, God bless you.

    Its fairly obvious that the powers that be are trying to break and slience Kent, they are trying to send a message out to Christians not to “mess” with them. Please do not be weary, please hold on, please trust that our Lord is with us and will comfort us. Please believe and have faith that the knot in Brother Kents stomach, although hard to bear will bring forth fruit.

    1 Peter 1:3-9 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    This is a time where the Lord is dividing the chaff from the wheat. He wants to see where our allegiance lies, he has used many people and scenarios for his greater purpose and he is using Brother Kent right now.

    A verse in Revelations sprung to mind – Revelations 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    [EDITED] …

    We may not win all the battles, but we’re winning the war! Love NEVER fails, it cannot. Everything else may fail, but love will never fail! “So now abideth faith, hope and love, these three; but the greatest of these is Love!” (1 Corinthians 13:13) Hallelujah! Thank You Jesus! Amen. So you wont fail either Kent, if you keep fighting! For hope never quits, faith never stops trusting, and Love never fails!
    Galations:6:9: And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    I will write you again as soon as I can, I understand you won’t be able to reply, but that’s ok. I hope this letter will be of inspiration to you and a witness to anyone who may read it.
    God bless and keep you Brother Hovind.
    All my Love and prayers from,
    Sam and Family, West Yorkshire, UK

  181. EndTimes January 27, 2007 3:08 pm Reply

    Dear NaD,

    Where in Dr. Hovind’s tapes does he ever ridicule education or the importance of study? Where is the belief in creationism an impediment to studying Spanish? The last time I checked, studying Spanish and wondering about the falsities of evolution are completely unrelated. The story of your sister is one of tragic choices that she has made and she now lives in a world of fornication and rebellion against God. There is nothing in any of Dr. Hovind’s seminars to in any way lay at hand an accusation as you have done. Dr. Hovind never once made any statements that any rational person could justify living a sinful life of drugs and sex simply because Dr. Hovind has correctly pointed out the fraud of such things as Haeckel’s gill slits. Dr. Hovind’s message is instead simply put: Trust the Word of God. This your sister by your testimony did not do. You have falsely labeled his ministry as “distrust your education”. I would suggest you go back and review his tapes again. It is instead a simple and positive message of trust your Bible!!! Nowhere does Dr. Hovind advocate against “science” or “higher education.” His entire message is to look at all of the scientific facts and avoid brain washing indoctrinations. The only way to do this is to learn the higher education tenants, study and think for yourself. NaD, your comments are quite unjust.

    Secondly, please state which scientific facts set forth by Dr. Hovind were proven “too good” to be true. I deal much better in specific facts than mere unsubstantiated statements.

    I take great umbrage at your accusations. With kindness, EndTimes.

  182. Matthew January 27, 2007 7:16 pm Reply


    So what if Harris wore a shirt with “Natural Selection”? What is the connection between the incident and evolution. Would it be same if this person was a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian? As I recall, more people believed that Marilyn Manson and the goth culture were to blame.

    From your Columbine web site:
    “There were also many common themes throughout their writings. Harris and Klebold both wrote of not fitting in, not being accepted and their lack of self-esteem. They reflected on natural selection, self-awareness and their feelings of superiority. They plotted against all those persons who they found offensive – jocks, girls that said no, other outcasts or anybody they thought did not accept them. Most of those teens were unaware that they had ever offended Harris or Klebold.”

    It is you should study Hitler’s actions more carefully. Early in his years, he often spoke of what he was doing in the name of God. I ask you what evidence can you provide that Hitler spoke of evolution? Maybe, you should reed more than the title of Darwin’s “The Origin of Species”.

    I am not a Darwinist nor a Neo-Darwinist. I am an agnostic Christian. Similarly to Darwin, who wrote that he had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God, and that generally “an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind.”

    Darwin did study theology, but he also studied medicine as well as taxidermy and natural history. He served nauturalist on the H.M.S. Beagle. He studied plants and animals on these expedtiions. Where did Hovind make his studies on science? As I have mentioned before he has lied about the oldest tree, Great Barrier Reef, Niagara Falls, and Lucy. It not his “degree” that is just only wrong but his view on evolution, taxes and life. Hovind has not studied science but copied other peoples’ work and tried to claim it as his own without checking the facts.

    Finally, I do not mind if you “mock” me, I have an “evolved” backbone. It sure seems Hovind does not mind to “mock” evolutionists by saying they believe “humans came from rocks” and claim biologists believe humans “evolved from bananas.”

    What comes around, goes around.

  183. EndTimes January 27, 2007 8:09 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Rebuttal #1)

    You previously stated:

    “Your(sic) are correct in almost every particular – except in your conclusion. The Dover trial did not consider the question as to whether or not God exists (how could it?) so what’s your point?
    “Intelligent Design” is simply a God of the Gaps excuse for an argument. As time goes by the gaps get filled in and Gappy God gets smaller and more disconnected. But only in a scientific sense.”

    First, my conclusion was stated in the positive and is still evidenced by the facts. The Dover trial had very little to do with anything but contrived philosophical legal dilemmas on the issue of separation of church and state. I did not comment anything on whether God exists but that is a great subject to debate in its proper time.

    You referred to the God of the Gaps which really is a misnomer because the more we learn about this “natural world” the more phenomenal my God becomes in knowing that He created it all. The larger the universe, the more magnificent is my creator who not only created all of the stars but calls them by name. The more we learn of the human genome the more amazing my God becomes. Evolutionists falsely assume the God of the gaps argument is a logical exclusion of creationism but it is not. In reality, the more I learn of every aspect of science the bigger my God becomes. How can I make such a claim? Let’s start with the “simple” DNA molecule. DNA is the building block of the genetic information of all living creatures. In such, evolutionists have one insurmountable problem that cannot be overcome despite Dawkins lame attempt in his book the blind watchmaker. DNA is information,instructions and genetic commands. By the definition in “Wikipedia”:

    “Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions for the development and function of living organisms. A gene is a sequence of DNA that contains genetic information and can influence the phenotype of an organism.”

    Thus DNA is instructions, “an instruction is a form of communicated information that is both command and explanation for how an action, behavior, method, or task is to be begun, completed, conducted, or executed.” (Wikipedia)

    Thus, not only does evolution fall short (has gaps) in such things as origens of matter and energy, space and time, origens of species, origens of biogenesis, it completely and totally ignores the gap of explaining humanly inconceivable volumes of information, instructions and commands of life found in DNA from the simplest to most complex creatures. No my friend Samphire, I do not have a God of the gaps, I have a God of creation and Salvation as evidenced by every creature every found on the face of this earth and by His infallible Word of truth. Evolution is the process that has all the gaps in the knowledge arena. In such, your idol, Stephen J. Gould recognizing the gaps in evolutionary theory is now known by his theory of evolution by “jerks,” aka punctuated equilibrium.

  184. Harriet January 27, 2007 8:11 pm Reply

    I so want to hear about Dr. Hovind’s wellbeing.

  185. EndTimes January 27, 2007 8:29 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Rebuttal #2)

    You previously stated:

    “And, by the way, to avoid any misunderstanding, the “sham court room theatrical performance” was enacted by the defendants and not the plaintiffs.”

    I stand by my prior comments of the completely meaningless performance of this legal dance with the people of Dover, PA and the Discovery Institute. Here is another sample of their findings.

    “In 2005, intelligent design proponents arguments regarding the identity of a designer became an issue considered by the court in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, the “Dover trial,” where plaintiffs successfully argued that intelligent design is a form of creationism, and that the school board policy requiring the presentation of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution as an “explanation of the origin of life” thus violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In his ruling, the judge stated that the appearance of design is subjective,

    “For human artifacts, we know the designer’s identity, human, and the mechanism of design, as we have experience based upon empirical evidence that humans can make such things, as well as many other attributes including the designer’s abilities, needs, and desires. With ID, proponents assert that they refuse to propose hypotheses on the designer’s identity, do not propose a mechanism, and the designer, he/she/it/they, has never been seen. In that vein, defense expert Professor Minnich agreed that in the case of human artifacts and objects, we know the identity and capacities of the human designer, but we do not know any of those attributes for the designer of biological life. In addition, Professor Behe agreed that for the design of human artifacts, we know the designer and its attributes and we have a baseline for human design that does not exist for design of biological systems. Professor Behe’s only response to these seemingly insurmountable points of disanalogy was that the inference still works in science fiction movies. Ruling, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, page 81

    “It is readily apparent to the Court that the only attribute of design that biological systems appear to share with human artifacts is their complex appearance, i.e. if it looks complex or designed, it must have been designed. (23:73 (Behe)). This inference to design based upon the appearance of a “purposeful arrangement of parts” is a completely subjective proposition, determined in the eye of each beholder and his/her viewpoint concerning the complexity of a system.” — Ruling, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, page 81″

    I am sorry to disagree with an esteemed conservative jurist, but the presence of the most densely designed information systems known in the universe as contained in the genetic code of every single living organism studied to date is objective and not subjective evidence. The evidence of design is in such quite objective and subject to precise mathematical and statistical analysis. Your Honour, with all due respect, you are wrong. If it appears complex, that is simply the Lord God of this universe testifying of His creative powers in an awesome display of eternal power that should not go unnoticed. If there is any perceptual error, it is on the part of anyone that will mitigate the truth of creation and fail to recognize the message he has sent by the information, instructions and commands present in the things that He has made. (Romans 1:18-20).

  186. CMarychurch January 27, 2007 8:29 pm Reply


    [I’ll jump in here if you don’t mind]

    “I would recommend you read the post I did above. Kent Hovind is correct in his statements regarding the Columbine shooters. […] Harris […] wore a white T-shirt underneath that said, Natural Selection.”

    **Who said, “Natural selection is kind of like God’s quality control.”? None other than Kent Hovind himself. So is Natural Selection good or bad? Besides, running around shooting people is not Natural Selection.

    “I’d refer you to the entire title of Darwin’s book.”

    **On the Origin of Species or the Preservation of Favoured Races. The word “race” as used in the title of this 19th century book refers to any type of lineage. Which leaves us with the question, is it honest to claim the title of Origins is racist (in the modern use of the word)?

    Sure, lets compare Darwin and Hovind. Darwin worked at the beginning of the scientific era when there were very few scientific specialities. Hovind works at a time of high speciality and knowledge but has aquired none. Darwin did extensive field research. Hovind has done none. Darwin published multiple papers on many subjects in scientific journals. Hovind has published none. Darwin never attempted (as far as I know) to inflate his qualifications. Hovind has.


    I have noticed some patterns in the statements defending Kent Hovind. There appears to be some clear groupings.

    TYPE I

    Hovind broke the law but he has done so many good things it doesn’t matter


    Hovind broke the law but it is a silly law or doesn’t exist.


    Hovind didn’t break the law because the law doesn’t apply to him


    It is all a setup by the Illuminati/Satanists/New World Order to shut Hovind up.

    Which leaves us with an odd position. According to Hovind’s supporters he simultaneously broke and didn’t break a law, which may or may not exist or apply, all while being framed by a conspiracy.

    I’ve also noticed supporters often refer to Hovind’s religious motivations but seem to gloss over his factual accuracy (or lack of). For example, the quote I mentioned earlier didn’t raise one defense other than someone attempting to question my motivations (which is technically an ad hominem fallacy).

    So here is a recent quote of Hovind regarding a basic scientific concept (is there anybody willing to defend it?)

    “Also, Einstein’s formula – E=mc^2 – […] Einstein was just saying the speed of light squared – 186,000 times 186,000 – that is a huge number. I don’t think anybody knows, including Einstein, that that exact number is correct – the energy is equal to the speed of light squared – that is just an illustration to show how much energy can be found in a small amount of mass. I mean, it could have been E=mc cubed or quadrupled, I don’t think anybody knows. How would you prove such a thing? How do you know it is not E=mc to the two and a half power, you know, or some kind of law like that? The point is, the speed of light is not a constant according to an awful lot of research in the last 25 years […] and Einstein’s formula is just giving an example of how much energy there is.”
    Truth Radio 21 July 2006

  187. EndTimes January 27, 2007 8:54 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, (Rebuttal #3)

    You previously stated:

    “In your second post you ask when was Paley’s argument of design ever proven false. Well, now would be as good a time as any. Paley’s watch is not the product of self-replication and is therefore irrelevant to the TOE.”

    Samphire, in fact Paley’s argument is even more relevant with every new discovery of cellular and molecular biology. The actual machines within the cell are fascinating to behold and completely within the realm of patentable ideas if only a mere man had invented them. The argument of Paley’s as you know has to do with the information (i.e. the intelligence) of the man that built the watch and not whether the watch can reproduce itself. We know from observational studies that the watch did not form itself and statistically exceeds the probabilities of chance alone to form itself by random chance. The fact that creatures can reproduce themselves in incredibly complex molecular manners is another evidence of the wonders of creation.

    So also is the analogy still applicable that when we see great information, we know that great intelligence had to create such an object which cannot be by chance alone. The fact that you can sit and think from the collection of chemicals that constitute your brain and communicate that as information on an evolution/creation debate is a priori evidence of a superior, intelligent designer who created your intelligence as well. Information and intelligence does not happen by blind, random chance as evolutionist wish, hope and frantically want us to believe. We have no other logical conclusion that can be reached other that to call upon our creator who also happened to write us a love letter called the Bible with further evidence of who He is and why He loves us.

    Lastly, you stated: “As to your final paragraph, why would the scientific community testify on behalf of the Discovery Institute? That is as stupid (apologies for the personal abuse) a question as asking why did no-one from Nicole Simpson’s family testify on behalf of OJ? Isn’t the answer obvious?”

    Samphire, you have taken my comment out of context and applied an illogical argument that was never intended nor even implied. My statement was that there are other respected scientists who believe in creation that were never included in this trial of the Discovery Institute’s ideas, writings and planned modes of confronting the theory of evolution. I stand again that the Dover trial is a sham operation of perverted justice for all of the many reasons that I have laid out previously. Thank you for reading my response nevertheless.

    With the kindest regard, EndTimes.

  188. fuzzi January 28, 2007 12:30 am Reply

    >The same is true for Kent. He doesn’t belong in prison. I pray that the Lord will >somehow use this for His glory, and that most of all Kent is released soon. He >doesn’t belong there.

    Actually, I beg to differ. As we are all sinners, each one of us is condemned for our sinful state. We not only belong in prison, but should suffer worse. Prison is actually preferable to what we really deserve.

    Thanks be to God for what He did on the cross, so that none need to suffer eternally for their sins.

    For the person who wondered about parole, I have bad news: there is no parole in Federal prison. You serve your time, minus a little bit if you are ‘good’. He might get a year off, but not much more.

    Through it all, let us remember that the Lord is in control. Even when we do not understand why He is doing what He is doing, it will serve a purpose, a greater good. (Romans 8:28)


  189. Andrewrai January 28, 2007 1:58 am Reply

    Reading your post and the report written I can not help but to hold back the tears. Just a few short months ago I found one of the video on Google Video. You have know idea how much you have effect me in more way that you could understand. I had been going throught some very very depressing times and having some pretty bad anxiety…………. I have always been christion, and belive in god from the bottem of my heart but the world around me was getting to me with personal problems and such. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING AND DONT GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

  190. Brewkinbrew January 28, 2007 3:06 am Reply

    Dear Kent. Thank you. Your ministry planted seeds that grew and choked out the weed of drug addiction.

    I gave a book to the man who led me to the Lord and also who gave me your tape. That book is called
    “To End All Wars”

    It is an incredible story of men who were imprisoned during WW2 and who never gave up on Jesus.

    Although this sentence is a tragedy I believe that your presence brings a blessing to those around you where ever you are. I’m sure there will be a lot of inmates in your company who will receive the gift of eternal life through Jesus

    Were all praying for you. Aaron From British Columbia, Canada

  191. Samphire January 28, 2007 1:37 pm Reply

    Hi, Endtimes,

    With respect to your Part iii, a kangaroo court is one which operates in a peremptory fashion lacking proper judicial procedure neither deficiency being present at Judge Jones’s court. The proceedings were both thorough and lengthy lasting over a period of nearly six weeks. Unfortunately for the creationists, some of the defendant Christian school board members who testified were shown to be untruthful and dishonest – a typical creationist performance that we in cyberspace have long come to know and love. You clearly have read all 139 pages of the well-argued judgment but I suggest that you read the transcript of the trial as well if you have not already done so – not that either would change the mind of a true conspiracy theorist like your goodself.

    Your claim that creationism in schools in unconstitutional is a typical Hovindian strawman. In fact, it is permissible to teach creationism anywhere in the US – except in science classes, the reason being that creationism (and ID also) cannot show itself to be science. Presumably, they don’t teach Catch 22 in modern history lessons either because it isn’t history – it’s a fable.

    Your argument that the Discovery Institute is a wedge between the various flavours of creationism and rational science rather than one one between science and the law is one that I have not heard before but one which, with all due respect, I think I will keep in the file marked “Shredder” otherwise known by me as Occam’s Electric Razor.

    Your final posting makes some different remarks. I think I know a little (and I readily admit it is only a very little) of the patriot movement and its primitive ideas of freedom from what it sees as an increasingly rapacious federal government and how it believes it has its foundations in the War of Independence. But who in the long run won that war? We have Good Queen Bess II and you have George Bush ii. We will be losing Tony soon but you may be getting Hillary. On the other hand, you have Louisiana and we still have Northern Ireland so, actually, it’s difficult to tell who eventually carried the day. But the serious point I make is that I do not agree that KH is in prison as representative of the patriot movement. How do I know? Because he said so himself at the sentencing hearing. He said that he is not a tax protester, that he thinks taxes are good, that he did not object to paying them and that if the court would tell him what taxes remain to be paid then he will happily get his supporters to divvy up the cash although I am not sure that that last comment would have gone down too well in court. Also, his published views on democracy do not mesh with those of the Founding Fathers.

    By the way, this weekend I was no more than an arm’s length away from Apollo 10 at London’s Science Museum and Pushchair Convention. From my perspective, it was well worth it to me to have you Yanks contributing your tax dollars to get a man to the moon. So stop complaining; this Limey, for one, is very grateful to you all for paying for that wonderful adventure. :-)

    Kind regards

  192. Samphire January 28, 2007 6:26 pm Reply

    Hi Maturekid,

    Do you mind if I butt in? “Science” in my dictionary is defined as “any branch of knowledge based upon systemic observations…….. “. That definition does not seem to include the non-analytic study of creationist literature.

    Charles Darwin was an exemplar of a true scientist. Having studied medicine for a couple of years from the age of 16 and after gaining his theology degree he then studied natural phenomena in a systemic way from the age of 20 until he died aged 73, a continuous period of study of 53 years. He published many books and scientific papers throughout his life time, his last paper being published in the year before he died.

    On the other hand, Mr Hovind’s published papers total – let me count them all again so that I don’t mislead you – ah, yes, including his “PhD” thesis, none. That is because Mr Hovind does not “do science”: he does not make systemic observations. This explains in as simple a way as possible why many of us hold Mr Hovind’s wild and unprovable hypotheses in the highest disdain.

    I have also taken a quick look through the Origin of Species and nowhere can I find any reference to rifles or shotguns being necessary agents in natural selection. Perhaps Klebold and Harris, like KH and AH before him, misunderstood certain basics elements of the theory. I note also that all four gentlemen seemed to have a mutual and unhealthy interest in firearms.

    Yesterday afternoon I had a very nice cup of tea and a buttered scone seated at the Great Man’s feet. I was next to his white marble statue in the cafe of the Natural Science Museum. I mused to myself whether anyone would one day have a marble statue made of Mr.Hovind so that he could be pointed out to little children. “Where did that man come from, Mummy?”, they would ask. “From a rock, dear, from a rock.” would come the weary reply.


  193. Samphire January 28, 2007 7:38 pm Reply

    Hello, again Endtimes.

    You said “Information and intelligence does not happen by blind, random chance as evolutionist wish, hope and frantically want us to believe”. Darwin’s theory does not postulate “blind, random chance” so perhaps you have misunderstood it. Please seek out a modern definition of biological evolution.

    With regard to Paley, self-replicators have a number of mechanisms by which information can be increased. It is not the mutation which is the gain in information but how that mutation may be utilised by the organism. That is, the organism itself may find a use for the mutation provided it is copied by natural selection in its numerous forms (excluding guns) into the allele population.

    Sorry but I still don’t get your point on the Kitzmiller trial. A number of prominent IDists offered to testify but only one showed up and he admitted to not reading the science literature which debunked his supposed area of expertise. It may be that, as you say, there are many other scientists who believe in creationism but none of them are able to show it is science – which was the entire point of the trial.

    In an earlier post you stated that Stephen Gould was my idol. Actually, I don’t have idols or gods excluding Pat Boone, of course (for “Thee I love” but not the excruciating “Speedy Gonzales”) who I note from a link given somewhere in this blog thinks the Rapture could be up to 30 years away whereas one of our more pessimistic members here thinks the game will be up within the next ten. Given your study of prophecy, what is your prognostication?

    Elsewhere above you ask for example of Hovind’s errors. Just two: 1. He states time and time again that the ToE postulates that dogs give birth to non-dogs. No, it doesn’t. It postulates that dogs never give birth to non-dogs 2. you mention somewhere about Haekel’s fraud. KH states in his seminars that Haekel was prosecuted for fraud by his university. I can find no evidence for such a statement and believe it to be incorrect.

    P.S. I didn’t much like your response to NaD. I think that you could have expressed yourself with more Christian Charity for the loss of their sister. NaD’s evidence is that KH was directly responsible for the sister’s change in thinking.

    PPS. Is there any point LitBible writing to a state governor? Is the state executive able to interfere in federal law cases? Surely not?

  194. warocuya January 28, 2007 7:41 pm Reply


    After Hovind destroyed you on his “Answering the critics” I was surprised that you felt the urge to appear on this blog. Evolution is still unprovable. God on the other hand says he will accurately predict the future. Isaiah 66:7-9 & Ezekiel 36:24 written about 2,700 years ago predicted that Jews will be regathered to Israel from all over the world. Fulfilled May 15, 1948. Revelation 13:16-18 predicts the use of a numbering system that will have everyone on the planet marked physically so as not to be able to purchase food etc without it. The RFID chip is coming in a year to the united states. Now they have RFID ink with your personal data on it. God says in Zechariah 12:2-3 that Jerusalem will be a burden to the whole world. The United Nations has spent half of it’s sessions condemning Israel. The Middle East has become a major problem for the entire world especially Jerusalem.

    Marychurch, After corresponding with you I became tired of the way you changed the rules of engagement. In brief when you were cornered you simply changed the rules. Nice.I hope you really begin to seek the LORD because you will find him when you seek him with all your heart. If you don’t want to acknowledge him as Creator then you have a much bigger problem than the fairy tale of evolutionism.

    As for Hovind’s lies that others have been commenting on:
    Question –
    You mean all that those Ph.d’s that lost debates to Dr. Hovind are not as smart as you. Are you on kidding. Dr. Moore, Dr. Shermer, Dr. Bartelt and others are much smarter than you guys. You can clearly see them get fustrated because they couldn’t show Hovind to be a quack. On the contrary. They lost the debate. Being from an accredited univeristy with programs through Harvard and Boston University, I can tell you they lost because they couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that evolutoinism was true. Hovind shows them up. My schools taught evolutionism and they gave me the same story you see at the beginning of the Star Wars films… “Long ago and far away…”

    Christian and Native American

  195. praybird January 28, 2007 8:51 pm Reply

    Thank you Eric for posting and letting us know. We are still believing that somehow the appeal will go through. We will continue to lift you and Dr. Hovind, Mrs. Hovind and your family in prayers and support.
    I wish we lived close to where Dr. Hovind is at, because we would show up at the jail and ask to be part of his bible studies. We would consider it a priviledge and honor to be able to sit and learn with the inmates. As I said in our other posts, your ministry has done much to lift our spirit and encourage our faith.
    Could you please post Dr. Hovinds address so we can write to him? Please tell him how much we appreciate him, and to know that for now, there is still another mission field for him to preach at.
    I remember Davids words when he said, ” I cried unto the Lord and He heard me and delivered me from all my fears.” He is our deliverer, no matter what. He shut the Lions mouth, he opened prison doors, he is able— He is able— He is able and we are believing for a miracle. We love you guys, stand strong, be of good courage, the Lord will fight your battles. Much Love and Prayers, the Flickinger family

  196. johndonnelly January 29, 2007 3:41 am Reply

    Eric ,Let us know where dr. Hovind is exactly so that we can visit him if possible. I know there are going to be limits to visitations etc but the world has got to know that he has many supporters who love him
    John Donnelly

  197. Samphire January 29, 2007 3:42 am Reply

    Said this at 2:32pm:

    “To the skeptics,
    Where were you when Kent Hovind had his radio program? The call were free but you couldn’t handle Dr. Hovind. Hmmmm.
    He handled IRS questions, finances and anything else you could think of.
    Anyway, you guys are brave.”

    Hi, warocuya,

    Actually, many of us used to bravely email Hovind when he was still in possession of his gun collection but he refused to answer. I would also email his supporters in this country but none would respond. Even posts to this website would be rejected and, few as there were, only sycophantic messages accepted. Mr.Abrahmson is far more generous. Indeed, remarkably so and I thank him for it. I am not sure that I could claim that I would be quite so accommodating if our respective roles were reversed.

    As to the radio program, I never heard it in England but I have heard recorded extracts on the web in which KH was in conversation with those who obviously knew their subject. KH floundered very badly and it was interesting to hear how he tried to massage the course of the discussions if they were not going in his favour. If you would like links to these files I’ll be happy to supply them.

    The main lesson coming from these audio files is that KH thinks that evolution is the biological representation of a Detroit production line. As Porgy recognised – “it ain’t necessarily so”.

    [ EDITOR’S NOTE:  Well, this forum is intended to discuss Dr. Hovind, CSE’s direction and future, and reactions regarding this ministry as a whole.  It is not really intended to be a creation-evolution debate forum, per se.  Having stated this, Eric Hovind and I spoke just this morning about the $250,000 offer for any scientific evidence supporting belief in evolution.  The offer still stands:  For two months or so I substituted for Dr. Kent Hovind on the afternoon radio program,   I sometimes very directly challenged flat-Earth-evolutionists to call in with their hardest questions or challenges at that time.  And CSE still answers many creation theory questions via Email each day:  (Category:  “Science/Bible Questions”.)   Note that all CSE materials are also still available for purchase:  And finally, Eric Hovind is beginning to make himself available for speaking engagements.  Paul Abramson ]

  198. GORGE January 29, 2007 5:37 am Reply

    Not for the want of trying I still do not know the Hovinds side to this very sad matter.Due to the silence I can only say mathew 5v25 comes to mind.If Dr.hovind is just in the matter please come out with a clear statement.
    It’s good to read about so many crims comming to know the Lord….A contrite and broken Heart the Lord will not despise…..Christ is still on the throne nothing changes that.

  199. McGurk January 29, 2007 8:36 am Reply

    It will be interesting to see what Eric does concerning the withholding of employee taxes. If he begins to withhold taxes, this will be an admission that what his father did was wrong. If he does not withhold taxes, he will almost certainly wind up in prison.

  200. darling January 29, 2007 9:39 am Reply

    Jan26 Maturekid Said this at 6:36pm:

    “Senator Lyndon B Johnson inserted into the tax code regulations that inhibit the ability of a church to speak on political candidates.”

    These rules apply to all non-profits – and for good reason. Importantly, non-profits are still completely free to speak on political *issues*.

    “Prior to 1984, churches were not subject to collecting taxes on their employees.”

    That applied to all non-profits. But then:

    “As Hovind freely states, the church his ministry affiliates with is not signed under the 501.3 c. Makes this more fun and complex doesn’t it?”

    Not really. As far as I can tell, CSE/DAL came into existence after 1984, and have never claimed to be a non-profit. So that’s all moot.

    “Here is the problem: US Constitution – Bill of Rights – Amendment I reads as follows:
    “Congress shall make no law…””

    Without wishing to give a free Con Law lession, it should be self-evidence that the first amendment is not an absolute prohibition.

    Otherwise, laws against obscenity and shouting “fire” in a crowded theater would be unconstitutional. As would laws preventing Rastafarians from using herbal jazz cigarettes in their religions ceremonies.


    Jan27 EndTimes Said this at 12:41am:
    “What Dr. Hovind was convicted of was simply the way that all churches in America did business for over 200 years until January 1, 1984.”

    Again, you’re confusing non-profits, which CSE/DAL, which they admit is *not* a non-profit. Furthermore, you’re claiming CSE/DAL is a church, which it is not.

    Ignoring the non-profit/church/CSE/DAL distinction:

    “As of December 31, 1983, there was no law that required a church to be a tax collector by virtue of the freedoms guaranteed in our constitution.”

    No, there was no law because Congress hadn’t passed one.

    “Since that time, our government has gone against the constitutional principle of separation of church and state and now taxes God without the legal (i.e. constitutional) authority to do so in accord with the many original intent documents of our founding fathers.”

    Can Congress constitutionally pass laws restricting speech and expression of religion? The answer, as I’ve shown above, is yes.
    *Does* the withholding law restrict expression of religion? I doubt it. And if it does, the governmental interest far outweights this, making it perfectly constitutional.

    So my questions for maturekid and EndTime:

    How would a law requiring a church employer to withhold Social Security and Medicare taxes from its employees affect its religious expression?

    How is asking employers to withold its employees Social Security and Medicare taxes “taxing God”?

    Why is CSE/DAL a church?

    If CSE/DAL has rejected, by choice, non-profit status, why should non-profit rules to apply to them?

  201. ttt123 January 29, 2007 11:09 am Reply

    mcgurk, if eric starts withholding taxes… how is that admitting his dad was wrong? that to me would mean he just realizes or feels it’s to hard of a battle to take on the unjust tax system. do some research, those taxes are NOT constitutional. kent is great man doing a great work and i support him.


  202. GaryMurray January 29, 2007 11:27 am Reply


    I am no great mind, as a matter of a fact I think I’m ignorant in a lot of things and I know I’m worthless on this earth but I felt compelled to step in on Hovind’s behalf in light of your statement.

    I disagree. I’m sure Eric will do what God lays on his heart as it involves employee taxes, but if he does withold these taxes or claim them as contractors it isn’t an admission of guilt. Our government has much more control than you may believe; and the methods used by the lawyers in courts to edify the meaning of our laws is ill-achieved. Trying to decipher government laws, ammendments, tax laws and legalities is much like having a 10 year old American translate anchient Sanscript. Some may say this is an exaggerated comparison, but I disagree. Modestly, sanscript isn’t that difficult to decipher.

    Since the birth of our government our way of life and the laws we live by have slowly been modified for the better of our politics. This might be a shocking statement for some of you to hear as some of you still believe we live in the early 1800’s, where the majority of politicians and governing laws were in place for the better of our country, rather than fiscal and power driven agendas.

    Our Forefathers were ignorant when running a nation, and didn’t know what the American people wanted so in turn they decided to develop a system where the majority rules and the minority accepts. The problem with this sytem is that it could be overturned internally which is what has slowly (forgive me for using this term) evolved over the past hundred or so years.

    Laws and applications are in place now for those who speak loudest rather than those who outnumber. Our ability to change our laws to accomodate the nation has become corrupt, misunderstood and often unchallenged. We accept changes and minor ammendments because as they are passed they don’t directly effect us. We’re comfortable living our lives, taking the kids to the soccer game, eating our fast food and watching our Blockbuster hit while planning our next culdesac BBQ party.

    What we don’t realize is that it only took one stone brick to build the Great Wall of China. This is exactly what the government relies on. Our laws are so difficult and ever changing that the confusion of translation requires elite researchers and legalists to decipher them. Well, What makes them right?

    Hovind is highly intelligent. I am not saying that he deciphered tax laws correctly while the courts and prosecuters were wrong. I wasn’t there and don’t have the manuscripts of the courts. What I do know is that everyday our government is overturning old laws to accomodate the new world. Could it be that Hovind’s theories and research contrasted with the new world (or possibly a religiously indifferent world) and thus had to also be expedited?

    I am not saying our entire government is corrupt and I am not saying that all politicians are out to destroy the old values of our great nation. I still believe we live in the greatest nation that has ever been. I enjoy my freedom to live, love, worship and serve the way I want to; but I gradually see these freedoms decreasing in our society. This is all due to government control.

    I believe our justice system to be corrupt, I don’t believe it should take hours and hours of research to decipher laws. I can spend hours reading one ammendment on a Congressional bill and decipher it a number of ways based on what my agenda is. This might be an accepted practice outside our legal system, but it should have no place in our governing laws. Though it does, and it is what many count on. Tax laws, tables and of course even our government laws are complex and uncomprehendible to the average US citizen. I feel most are written this way so that the government has the priv. of deciphering them whichever way is best suited for political gain.

    You say, this is the best we have! This is the only way to accomplish a strong, stable government system. Well ok, you maybe right, whats in place is the best way, but we shouldn’t accept mediocrity of a corrupt legal system just because it is the best way we know how. Constantly I see new laws and ammendments passed and built on to one another, but I see no effort to model them in a simpler manner and make them understandable by those who support and finance the government. Why not? Why isn’t there equally the same effort made to explain the laws as there is making them?

    I’ve heard the argument that it just isn’t that ‘simple’ sir, and there is no way to govern in simplicity… Well, God did.

    Thou shalt not kill – Pretty straight forward
    Thou shalt not steal – Can’t really misunderstand here
    Thou shalt not lie – Again, simple.

    I know this isn’t five hundred volumes of books explaining why you can’t kill and ammending a select few from being able to do so based off of situations, time of day and change in weather patterns, but at one point these simple laws was the foundation of our complex system of jargon today. What happened? I wonder why a man who is caught red-handed in murdering his wife gets a team of lawyers who can translate, twist and tangle the law to claim he’s innocent because the arresting officer forgot to dot the ‘i’ on the report. That’s just absurd! I could sit here all day and and give example after example as to why one man will commit one crime and suffer the death penalty while another man commits the same crime but due to his celebrity status suffers 3 months community service, and our system society this. You say, I don’t support that! Perhaps, but what are you doing to change it?

    I guess it comes down to this, my final remark about the translation of laws… I just don’t understand that, tho I understand morally and lawfully I shouldn’t do something, but yet I do that which I understand I shouldn’t, I am able to make others understand that I really can do it and I am free to go, or, it is that way and I am guilty as sin. See how fast it can all get misunderstood?

    Again, back to my original statement. I’m sure Eric will do what God lays on his heart, but if Eric does decide to pay income taxes it will be because God commands him to do so, and not because mans corrupt law requires him to do so. I don’t think it to be an admission of guilt, rather prevention of persecution. Kent Hovind is saved, if he is guilty you can be sure the conviction of God would have for sure moved upon him, and for those scoffers, incarceration is NOT an indication that God has condemned Kent. Perhaps he put him there because lives needed to be saved.

    God bless you Bro. Hovind, I will continue to pray that God gives you the grace to overcome. God told Paul, when he asked him 3 times in prayer to remove the thorns of his flesh… “My grace is suffecient for thee.” as it is for you as well. Hang in there, we’ll continue to pray that your blessed ministry continues both inside and out!

    God Bless!
    Gary Murray

  203. warocuya January 29, 2007 12:25 pm Reply


    In the united States we have a constitution. In it we are allowed to defend ourselves.
    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    As for Hovind stumbling on radio programs. I owe all the CSE TruthRadio broadcasts and all of the Debates. I strongly disagree with you. I will quote my owe post above

    “Question –
    You mean all that those Ph.d’s that lost debates to Dr. Hovind are not as smart as you. Are you on kidding. Dr. Moore, Dr. Shermer, Dr. Bartelt and others are much smarter than you guys. You can clearly see them get fustrated because they couldn’t show Hovind to be a quack. On the contrary. They lost the debate. Being from an accredited univeristy with programs through Harvard and Boston University, I can tell you they lost because they couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that evolutoinism was true. Hovind shows them up. My schools taught evolutionism and they gave me the same story you see at the beginning of the Star Wars films… “Long ago and far away…”

    Hovind shouldn’t win even half of a debate. Evolutionism is unproved and unprovable…
    “God on the other hand says he will accurately predict the future. Isaiah 66:7-9 & Ezekiel 36:24 written about 2,700 years ago predicted that Jews will be regathered to Israel from all over the world. Fulfilled May 15, 1948. Revelation 13:16-18 predicts the use of a numbering system that will have everyone on the planet marked physically so as not to be able to purchase food etc without it. The RFID chip is coming in a year to the united states. Now they have RFID ink with your personal data on it. God says in Zechariah 12:2-3 that Jerusalem will be a burden to the whole world. The United Nations has spent half of it’s sessions condemning Israel. The Middle East has become a major problem for the entire world especially Jerusalem.”

    I am an American Indian and I am also a Christian. I believe in a Creator and in Exodus 20:11 HE says that He made everything in six days. Either He’s lying or you are misinformed. I have shown evidence through prophecy that His word os true. These cannot be denied but evolutionism can.

    There is no other religious book or person in history that accuarately predicts these events thousands of years in advance. So Jesus is calling you to follow him. The choice is yours.


  204. Matthew January 29, 2007 1:10 pm Reply


    How did Hovind win the debates? Was there a panel of judges, was there a vote?

    There is another line from Star Wars that applies to you: “Who’s the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?”

  205. selena January 29, 2007 2:50 pm Reply everyone with all their opinions on here should watch this video,, sometimes, when people are brave enough to stand against the giant, THE LAW DOES WORK!! Praise God for the american people who are still free thinkers, and who still care about what the law really says..this man did not pay income taxes, and he was found Not Guilty in an american court of law!!! this lady, who was on the jury that acquitted him, has an interesting story, and how it affected them as they tried to decided the case and the judge refused to give them evidence! they had no evidence! this video is great! if Kent Hovind could stand before an honest judge, he too would be acquitted! I for one am praying earnestly for that, and everyone who is an american citizen should be scared to death of the IRS vigilanti justice…

  206. darling January 29, 2007 7:28 pm Reply

    warocuya said this at 12:25pm:

    “I am an American Indian and I am also a Christian. I believe in a Creator and in Exodus 20:11 HE says that He made everything in six days. Either He’s lying or you are misinformed…”

    … or you’re misinterpreting.

  207. warocuya January 29, 2007 8:23 pm Reply


    Let me know what school you attended. Harvard? Boston U? The only fool here is you.
    As for Hovind winning the debates. You can tell on the faces of all those happy Ph.d’s
    who won. Bartelt for example was angry and clearly fustrated. Moore stayed on the topic of “kinds.” because he was soundly beaten and had no other evidence. Shermer finally said that if evolutionism isn’t taught then students can’t learn science. Wow, what did everyone do before evolutionism, teach baking?

    You remind me of Carl Marychurch. Hi Carl! Don’t like whose winning then change the rules. Why even theologians like Darwin can be scientists. OK then Dr. Kent Hovind is a scientists and his theory is better than Darwins or yours.

    Kent Hovind wins again.

    P.S. Watch the name calling.

    ‘The fool has said in his heart there is no God…”

    I didn’t call Samphire a fool though evolutionism is foolish.
    Evolutionism and Creation are not compatable. The Bible and evolutionism are not compatable. Exodus 20:11 says that He made everything in six days. Either God, with all the fulfilled prophecies I outlined in my previous post, is lying or you are mortal man. So since you are going to die one day I would suggest you get right with God. Jesus is calling you and if you reject him you are going to have a bigger problem than evoutionism.

    Kent Hovind has been a major problem for evolutionists. It isn’t our fault you have a weak theory. Isn’t that why you are on this blog. To try to kick someone that can’t defend himself. Someone that hurt your fake theory of evolutionism.

    Evolutionism is unproved and unprovable. I strongly suggest that everyone purchase some debates from CSE and see for yourself who won. Also the Mp3’s of the radio program. You will love them.


  208. Nehemiah Jeon January 29, 2007 8:52 pm Reply

    I wouldn’t argue with anybody here.

    I’d go for people who’d want to hear the truth, and for the rest, all I could do is praying.

    Please, folks. It’s not to argue.

    If you win an argument, what good is it? Winning them to the Lord is the ultimate goal, isn’t it?

    God bless all of you,

  209. EndTimes January 29, 2007 9:44 pm Reply

    Dear Darling,

    Thank you for your reply. I would like to enlighten you on the status of IRS nonprofits in this country. Below is a disclaimer from my ministry (I have left the name blank in respect of CSE asking us to refrain from advertising on their site) and why I did not apply for the 501(c)(3) status myself. Simply put, it is an issue of sovereignty to our Lord Jesus Christ or to submit this sovereignty to the IRS. My choice was to forego any nonprofit status and I therefore do not accept any offerings where someone expects a tax receipt in return. I have personally taken this one step further and I no longer ask any other ministry to corrupt their loyalty to our Lord by submitting to the requirements of nonprofit status by expecting them to give me a tax exemption for any offerings that I have given them. I make the assumption that Dr. Hovind likewise shares these same concerns, but I have not had the opportunity to specifically discuss them with him.

    Thus, my dear Darling, the faith offered to our Lord cannot be tempered by governmental intrusions into the realm that belongs to God alone. Simply put, there are some areas where Caesar has no authority according to our constitution. The affairs of any ministry of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in promoting the truth of the Bible and sharing the gospel, by convention of our founding fathers, was to leave the church in its own dominion outside of the regulation of the state. Likewise, the state would not establish a national church as was present in the European countries. Now today, the state controls many of the church organizations through “Faith Based” funding which are eligible for these funds if they meet the definitions by the IRS of a “Faith Based Group.”. In addition, the state also controls the church through IRS sanctions in defining what is in their minds a “church” eligible for tax exempt status and imposes the unbiblical duty of making the church a tax collector for the state which is not the mission of those called by the Lord to preach the truths of His Word.

    This intrusion of Caesar into the realm of God did indeed start in 1954 with LBJ and we came completely into Caesar’s grip on January 1, 1984 by a law that many believe, including myself, impeaches and abrogates those very rights of the free exercise of religion that so many brave men have given their lives for. (The power to tax is the power to destroy) I would submit this as a fair representation of the basic issues of Dr. Hovind’s tax case. I have not ventured an opinion on whether I agree with the tactical decisions Dr. Hovind has made in maintaining the sovereignty of his ministry to Jesus alone as this is an issue between him and his master who will alone judge him. (Romans chapter 14) Nevertheless, I do share many of his philosophical concerns and support the application of constitutional prerogatives to the protection of church freedoms and the free exercise thereof as promised in the constitution. I am realistic enough to understand that the constitution has now been abrogated unlawfully to the greatest extent by those very men who have taken oaths to defend and protect it. (If you don’t believe me then look up the Military Commisions Act signed into law 10-17-2006 giving military dictatorial powers to our President) Protect and defend it they have not done. It is a legitimate issue to protest, but not one that is likely to go unpunished by this current government.

    (I would ask Paul Abramson not to edit my disclaimer in the same spirit that I have respected his request not to advertise on their web page. Thank you in advance.)


    “This ministry is not a 501(c) (3) tax exempt organization. This is due to the fact that all 501(c) (3) tax exempt religious organizations must adhere to the following clause in IRS Publication 557, page20:

    “To determine whether an organization meets the religious purposes test of section 501(c) (3), the IRS maintains two basic guidelines:
    1) That the particular religious beliefs of organization are truly and sincerely held and
    2) That the practices and rituals associated with the organization’s religious belief or creed are not illegal or contrary to clearly defined public policy.

    Hence, your group (or organization) may not qualify for treatment as an exempt religious organization for tax purposes if its actions, as contrasted with its beliefs, are contrary to well established and clearly defined public policy . . .”

    Today, the United States of America is governed by declarations of “Tolerance” and “Cultural Diversity” is taught at schools and businesses alike. “Intolerance” of any form is now illegal and against clearly defined public policy. We are now, by human rights laws in effect in this country, commanded by rule of law to tolerate all lifestyles, religions and cultures. Religious absolutism is now against the law in America; the country that by its earliest Supreme Court rulings was declared a “Christian” nation at its onset. The enforcement of these human rights laws for religious organizations may soon be enforced through the “religious purposes tests” as defined by the IRS and the “tax exempt status” of a religious organization. The only way to avoid conflict against religious intolerance laws is to agree that all religions are the same and to engage in a dialogue to find “common ground.”

    The doctrines of true Christianity are in enmity with declarations of tolerance for all cultures, lifestyles and religions. My Bible states in John 14:6: “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.” Any believer who “imposes this view” (i.e., witnesses of our Lord’s saving grace alone) upon any other individual with a different lifestyle, creed, culture or religion, may now be considered in violation of religious intolerance regulations by current United States laws and “clearly defined public policy.” The fact that these laws are not often enforced here in this country does hinder the reality that they may soon be enforced in the very near future.

    Therefore, this ministry will not solicit nor accept any tax deductible donations, nor will it seek any voluntary governmental protections under the 501(c)(3) tax code. This ministry will instead, continue to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth (unhindered by IRS tax codes) and the full counsel of God to all who have ears to hear and eyes to see until our Lord takes us home to be with Him forever more.”

  210. fuzzi January 29, 2007 10:03 pm Reply

    Matthew wrote:
    >There is another line from Star Wars that applies to you: “Who’s the more foolish: >the fool, or the fool who follows him?”

    I’ve never claimed to be smart, but I understand how a person without Christ thinks, because I was there, just a few years ago.

    God said:
    “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God…” Psalm 14:1

    “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..” Romans 1:22

    “Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
    For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe…
    But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;” 1 Corinthians 1:20,21,23

    “Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Corinthians 1:25

    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14

    And my favorite…for those who claim that they are wiser than God…

    “No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.” Job 12:2

    May the Lord make clear to you His will for salvation, forgiveness for you and all, including those of you who now deny Him. I denied Him until one morning about six years ago. Until then, I thought I knew better than those silly Jesus Freaks…who believed God’s word, the Bible…

    …I was wrong. I’m glad He showed me the Truth.


  211. EndTimes January 29, 2007 10:06 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire,

    I have listed the modern definition of evolution from Wikipedia. If you look carefully, the fundamental element of evolution is indeed blind random chance giving forth to variations that are then acted upon by variously debated evolutionary principles. Yes, the central theme of evolution starts first and foremost with blind, random chance. I do not believe that any man has ever shown that this process will result in the intelligence to debate the origins of intelligence.

    “The modern evolutionary synthesis (often referred to simply as the new synthesis, the modern synthesis, the evolutionary synthesis, neo-Darwinian synthesis or neo-Darwinism), generally denotes the integration of Charles Darwin’s theory of the evolution of species by natural selection, Gregor Mendel’s theory of genetics as the basis for biological inheritance, random genetic mutation as the source of variation, and mathematical population genetics.”

    (PS, it is required for every man to be accountable for their own actions at the time of judgement. That was my only point for NaD. Contrasting the reality of sins to the sinner is never an easy task for any of us to bear, most especially when I am confronted by my own, but otherwise I would be unable to repent without first acknowledging my own accountability. If I have offended, that was not the intention. My apologies extended.)

  212. ReadKJV January 30, 2007 1:37 am Reply

    The first thought I had when I heard Dr. Hovind was serving in prison was , “My God, this cannot be; he is not the kind of man who deserves this.” And I still think the same thing. I think of you as an honorable man and a real benefit to the body of Christ. You have sure encouraged my heart in the last number of years. A year ago I suggested to our Pastor that maybe we could watch your series of Creation tapes on Wednesday evenings for about 8 weeks, which we did. The congregation loved them and had nothing but gratefulness and the highest praise for them. I pray the school age children can lift their hearts more now in the public’s confused animal house they call school. Furthermore, I put onto our church’s website a recommendation and a plug for visiting Dr. Hovind’s website for creation information.

    I am praying for you, and if there is anything I can do, please let me know; I will take it to our church.

    I know our world is inundated with it, but it still pains me to see in some who have blogged on this site the vileness and hatred for friends of the Bible. I regretfully understand that because that was how I once was. I am saved not because I am a good man, but because Jesus is a good man. I surveyed the churches to join and saw a Bible Baptist church was the kind closest to the Bible and I still cannot figure out why I should not be one. So I am happily a Christian Baptist. But most of all I am so glad the Light of the world found me and saved me. (Maybe He did not know how bad I was! But He is stick with me now–thank God.)

    My family visited your creation theme park in February 2005. It was a lot more profitable and enjoyable than that little drive-in, sometimes morally repugnant thing called a “park” down the street from you–Disney World. I wish all the sodomites, atheists and potheads (and politicians trying to feminize our country with barnyard ethics) would load up their cars and drive from Orland to your theme park to find out what a good time really is–and hopefully find that eternal life they so desperately want. In about 4/05 I had a question about creationism and called Dr. Hovind’s offices, and lo and behold, about two weeks later he called me up(!)and personally answered my question. I did not expect such a call and felt really honored to hear from him.

    If Dr. Hovind has to serve according to the sentence they handed down, can someone please let me know what the earliest release date possible is for Dr. Hovind? I searched the Internet a bit and could not find any webpage speaking to that particular issue.

    Also, what is the status of Mrs. Hovind, though if it is best not to discuss that at this time I understand.

    Thanks for hosting this blog which makes it possible to keep up on the news of Dr. Hovind and to express our thoughts on it. I am praying that somehow God will make your time profitable and a benefit to others; and that your wife will have reason to joy in the Lord, and that your whole family will come colser together in Christian love.


  213. eecreationist January 30, 2007 7:38 am Reply

    Is there any chance that anyone will host truth radio again, perhaps by Eric or Paul? It was so nice to have something good and educational to listen to while working out, driving on the road or whenever. Last time I checked, Richard is playing old seminars and debates. Those are great, but I have every one of them (and different versions, too) and have listened to them dozens of times, which is why the radio program was refreshing. If not, does anyone know of some other good radio programs? I usually download them to my mp3 player and listen to them at my own leisure.

    One good one that I found was Kent’s good friend Ray Comfort’s ministry “Way of the Master” radio. You can find them at They are a little tricky to download, but once you’ve figured them out it’s not too bad. It’s hosted by Todd “freakishly tall” Freil, who comes from my very own town of St. Paul Minnesota. (No, not St. Paul Abramson) It’s no truth radio and they don’t really go over “creation” as much. But it’s better than listening to my same songs over and over and over.

  214. Samphire January 30, 2007 8:01 am Reply

    Hi, Selena,

    My impression of that video was that the juror did not quite understand her role. She was there to decide the case on the facts and not the law. The law is for the judge to decide. If the judge gets the law wrong then the accused has the right of appeal but there is no appeal (at least in England) against a finding of fact by a jury (subject to a few safe-guards).

    In the video it appeared that the lady juror was trying to determine whether or not the accused had broken the law as the law appeared to be to her. That was not her role. The question before the jury was did the accused file or not file? The correct answer, obviously, was no, he did not file. It was then for the judge to decide what penalty was due under the law for the failure to file.

    What the jury actually decided was that the defendant was not guilty of a failure to file on the basis that the it did not know whether or not the law required him to file, a verdict which based upon the evidence put before the court was clearly maverick in its nature. The defendant escaped jail but not the debt.

  215. bloghog January 30, 2007 9:09 am Reply

    Hovind is extremely intelligent? About what? Not science and that is demonstrably true. He seems to be able to hurl bible verses at a moments notice, so I’ll give him good memorization skills. He obviously is not too intelligent regarding the tax laws of this country. Let me give you two examples. See if the Hovindites can figure out what is wrong:

    (1) The speed of light is not constant. If you see a car approaching you at 60 mph with its headlights on, to the driver of the car, the speed of light is constant, but to the observer watching the car approach, the speed of light is c + 60 mph.

    (2) In the Hovind ‘theory’ an ice meteor is attracted by the magnetic pole of the earth and crashes into the earth at the pole.

    How about it Hovindtowne kool-aid drinkers. What’s the problem with these scientific statements from an extremely intelligent man?

  216. Samphire January 30, 2007 9:47 am Reply

    Hi, Warocuya,

    “You wrote “In the united States we have a constitution. In it we are allowed to defend ourselves.
’A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.’ ”

    Please would you explain the meaning of “well-regulated” in the above quote. I assume that it does not mean any group of people can form themselves into a posse and go and do their own thing. If someone holds arms should they not do so except as part of a formal and trained militia – somewhat like the Swiss?

    Contrary to what KH teaches, it isn’t the Theory of Evolution which regularly kills your school-kids. It is the ready availability of firearms. Over here in England we are not allowed to keep any sort of firearm except under limited circumstances and authorisation and consequently the incidence of firearm deaths (excluding occasional flare-ups of gang warfare) is very small. At the moment we have about 900,000 legal firearms (mostly farmer’s shotguns) in England against a population of about 50m. The US homicide deathrate by the use of firearms is about 34 times that of England. So how come the ToE in America kills schoolkids but not here in England where the theory is well accepted?

    As for biblical prophesy, it is a shame that it only appears to be prophesy in retrospect. I very much doubt that Zec 12:3 will ever come to pass but how about verse 6? Do you take that to mean a nuclear strike by Israel on her neighbours or just the occupation of the West Bank? Verse 9 seems to indicate that Jesus is looking forward to destroying both America and Britain and the only safe place to be will be in Jerusalem. What a bummer – I just had the house painted this summer.

    As for the Hovind debates, if you cast swill before swine of course they will be happy. Who in their right mind would give up the infallible certainty of the Biblical report of Noah’s flood for the utter fiction of geology. Polystrata trees prove it, don’t they?

    Kind regards,


  217. WayfaringStranger January 30, 2007 10:38 am Reply

    Hi there! My family and I pray for you, Dr Kent Hovind, and your wife and children often. Is there any way we can write to Kent Hovind himself? We live in Thailand and have not only been inspired by his DVDs ourselves, but they have helped many around us who had previously been ignorant.
    I would also like to say to all the critics out there, first of all, “Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone.” Secondly, I would like to ask them, “What are you doing for Christ, for the world, for your fellow man that is greater than what Dr. Kent Hovind has done that you feel you have the right to condemn him?” Thirdly, I would like to say to all Christians that our common enemy, the Devil, is very clever, and is seeking to divide and conquer us. I urge you all to lay aside your differences and fight to spread the good news, no matter who spreads it or how it gets around. I dare say that if some of you had been around in Jesus’ day, you would have conemned Him for “breaking the law”, just as the Scribes and Pharisees did.
    For his successor, Eric, I would like to say God bless you and I am praying for your anointing and wisdom. When praying about your ministry, the Lord gave me this verse: “Agree with thine adversary whilst thou art in the way with him….” You can look up the rest of the passage. Try to agree on the points you can agree on. To win some, you must be winsome, to paraphrase the Apostle Paul.
    Many prayers as the end draws near,

  218. Matthew January 30, 2007 11:55 am Reply


    I have asked before, why can’t God use evolution to create living beings? If you say no because it proves the Bible is wrong, you are saying is not omnipotent.

    The “prophecies” you have mentioned have not come to be. Jews still live outside Israel, major current conflicts are Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, not Jerusalem and you reasoning for the RDIF seems far-fetched.

    You suggest that I should purchase some debates and mp3s? Isn’t there a saying that “a fool and his money are soon parted?”

    How is that Hovind is correct? If you cannot even explain the basics, just tell me to go watch a video or listen to mp3s, then you have brainwashed. Can you explain to me how evolution is not true?

    For those who are waiting for the “end”, the rapture is not an exit strategy.

  219. Samphire January 30, 2007 12:17 pm Reply

    ReadKJV, You wrote “…. it still pains me to see in some who have blogged on this site the vileness and hatred for friends of the Bible……”

    Later you wrote ” I wish all the sodomites, atheists and potheads (and politicians trying to feminize our country with barnyard ethics)…….”

    If becoming saved would require me to think such thoughts and write in such an abusive manner of your fellow human beings then, as you Americans say, I think I’ll take a rain check.

    In your defence, though, you do seem to have based your sentiments on similar calumniations found in your handbook. It’s a mercy, I suppose, that you don’t comply with its full requirements and start throwing stones on behalf of your God at people of whom you believe He disapproves.

  220. ukulelemike January 30, 2007 12:24 pm Reply

    Brethren, the time is short, and what has happened to Brother Kent and his wife is merely indicative of that which is to come. They are the first of this time, in this country, but many more will follow, so be courageous, my friends! But let’s not be troubled by all this, because it merely means that Christ is coming sooner than we might think. I have of late begun to believe more in a post-trib return, tho I won’t go into all the reasons, but either way, the true church of Jesus Christ will be persecuted before He returns to take us home-We pray for Brother and Sister Hovind, and know that Christ is still able to save to the uttermost-but let it be according to His will and ways. May God continue to richly bless CSE and those who have made it the work that it is, and let’s thank the Lord God that we have had opportunity to be blessed by it! Amen and amen!

  221. xchampion91 January 30, 2007 2:13 pm Reply

    BlogHog – Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent man?
    If so I propose that you may want to check out what you are writing before posting your comments. You make absolutely no sense. Is there two or three things that we should be looking at?
    Nevertheless, I am sure such a powerful mind as yourself can tell us all about the tax laws here in this country.
    I don’t remember DR. HOVIND making any statement in regards to the first question. I admit I may be wrong, he may have said something of the kind, so I can’t answer that one, but the second one is highly possible. Look at the angle of the poles and the obvious wobble the earth has had over the last couple thousand years. Those calculations have been documented over the centuries by all kinds of scientists. Something caused that. I think that an ice meteor explains it fairly well. You don’t because your “powerful mind” is corrupted by the evolutionary propaganda that you learned from our also corrupt school system. In your hardened heart (exactly like mine was before I met Christ)you disregard anything that calls your understanding of the world into question. I hope that one day you can open yourself to the TRUTH!!! Not to these ungodly and paganistic principles that have brainwashed you. Yes you have been brainwashed. I know that since you are soooo intelligent that there is no way that you with your powerful mind could ever be brainwashed (but it has). I suggest you pick up a good King James Version from 1611 bible and rinse out the soapy and sudsy thing between your ears.

    God bless you but please remember that Christ is the way, the truth and the light and you WILL burn in hell forever if you don’t have the Son between you and the Father.

  222. xchampion91 January 30, 2007 2:15 pm Reply

    Sorry BlogHog, I mis-read your post. I thought you said three instead of these. My bad. Please forgive my post.

  223. Sade Tennyson January 30, 2007 6:30 pm Reply

    I just learnt of the sentence today & I thank the Lord for the grieve I felt & the pain.
    Eric, the Lord Jesus Christ will sustain you & give you divine wisdom to carry on with the work. This ministry shall not die in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. This storm will rather be used of the Lord as a manure to carry the ministry on in Jesus mightyt name, Amen. As many as are waiting for this ministry to close down will be baptised with divine disappointment & shame in the mighty name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. I pray that all faithful workers in the ministry will be divinely strengthened as well in Jesus name.
    Brother Hovind, the Lord knows you will be in this situation & he has a plan & by His special grace that plan will prevail in Jesus name Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. This case will be a case of had I known for the enemy in Jesus name. 1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
    On what lies ahead later today for sister Jo – By the power by which God is known to be God, every works of darkness about this whole situation will be destroyed in the mighty name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
    Please, shift your focus from human being & attack the spirit behind these warfare using our God given spiritual weapon. 2 Corinthians 10: 4 – 6;
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

    Brother Kent Hovind & family please remember Ephesian 6: 10 -20 & use it

    10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
    19 ¶ And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
    20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

    There is no situation above the Lord our God & He has promised that all things work together for good to those that love the Lord. This situation will work out for good as God has said.

    I & my husband will continue to uphold brother Kent, sister Jo, Eric, the whole family & the ministry in prayer.

    Question: Will the online donation – which is free donation towards the legal fee be taxed? please let me know.
    There has been no notes from brother Hovind again since the last before the sentence….please do post notes from him …so that we can know how he is doing…Which address do we send letters for him, does he get the ones posted here or we should send post card to the ministry address?

    Remain close to the Lord brother Kent, Jesus is with you even in this situation. Remember James 1: 2-4
    2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
    3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
    4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    I have gained a lot from those evolution series & many eyes have been opened to the truth. The truth will always prevail. Do not be disheartened…God is over all.

    It is well in Jesus name.

  224. warocuya January 30, 2007 8:17 pm Reply


    “Well regulated militia” – I see you have missed the point. We have the right to defend ourselves unlike you in Britian. Kent Hovind has the right under the Constitution of the united States to “…to keep and bear arms…” If firearms kills children do pencils misssspelll wordz. You remind me of Rosie O Donnell. “Blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming spoons for Rosie being fat.”

    Prophecies from 2,700 years ago apparently aren’t good enough for you but fairy tales like evolutionism are alright. Once again you have missed the point. Are you friends with Carl Marychurch? Unlike evolutionism, I have shown you just three fulfilled prophecies and there are hundreds. I recommend you perchase the DVD “Kaboom and Kabang” from CSE. They actually do science experiments showig how stratification can been demonstrated in a half an hour.

    A common tactic used by evolutionists is picking on portions of the discussion to keep the focus off of evolutionism and it’s “proofs.” The best proof is to wait and leave this life. But by then it’s too late. I use to think the way you do. Not anymore thanks to Kent Hovind and CSE. I have spoken to Dr. Hovind five times and met him at Dinosaur Adventure Land. He was polite, kind and thoughtful. He is really smart and I bet you couldn’t beat him in an IQ test.

    Remember, they don’t serve breakfast in hell. I don’t want you to go there. Your debt was paid so you won’t have to go there. Otherwise you own words will condemn you.

    Evolutionism and the Bible don’t mix. I think we addressed this alerady either you are lying or God is. I am going to side with the Creator (see Exodus 20:11). Remember, they don’t serve breakfast in hell. I don’t want you to go there. Your debt was paid so you won’t have to go there. The decision is yours.

    If you are both right, I lose nothing when I die but if your wrong, then you will have plenty to worry about. Jesus paid your debt. If you don’t want to go that’s your decision.


  225. EndTimes January 30, 2007 8:23 pm Reply

    Dear Bloghog,

    Thank you for your extraordinary journeys into the land of intelligent(sic) chatter. Thank you for your most wonderful comments.

    “How about it Hovindtowne kool-aid drinkers. What’s the problem with these scientific statements from an extremely intelligent man?”

    Well, this “kool-aid drinker” has a simple question that an esteemed paragon of intelligence as yourself should have no trouble answering in association with the known fact that DNA is a genetic language, a specific code that is the most information dense system known in the universe. In such, it is the commands, instructions and information systems for the building and maintenance of every living organism. It is thus a language subject to the mathematical and statistical analysis of languages. It is a message to the cell of each organism on how to conduct this thing called life. My question then, my dear bloghog is this:

    1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

  226. Harriet January 30, 2007 8:31 pm Reply

    Dear Dr. Hovind,

    Will you please write a note so Eric can post it for us to know how you are?

  227. EndTimes January 30, 2007 8:41 pm Reply

    Dear Matthew,

    I would suggest that you spend a little more time studying the elements of Bible prophecy before you decide that they are untrue. A simple place to start is Leviticus 26 which gives the history of Israel from the time of Moses until the present time. The very existence of Israel as a nation today is proof of the truth of the Bible. Yes, Jerusalem is a cup of trembling and universally believed by anyone who cares to venture an opinion that World War III will begin over this most disputed nation. Yes, Matthew, Zechariah 12 does tell us that Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone to all nations. I would venture that the amount of time spent debating the “problem” of Israel in the United Nations is indeed proof of this as well. I would again suggest that you spend more time studying the truth of Bible prophecy as it may actually be profitable to you some day. With kindness, EndTimes.

  228. Geocentric Bob January 30, 2007 11:57 pm Reply

    It certainly is painful to see this happen, but at the same time it’s a reminder of why submitting to civil government is biblical. It is also a reminder how men of God were used to give us our religious freedom. Baptists like John Leland influenced James Madison to bring about the Bill of Rights so there would be no government established state church. In contrast the so called science of evolution is used to replace a bible foundation. There is a battle out there and our niche is not to war with the civil authority when the message that evolution is dumb can still be preached.

    Do the biblical thing.

    Should a Christian Pay Taxes?
    By E. L. Bynum

  229. Wesley Rostoll January 31, 2007 6:12 am Reply

    To eecreationist.

    There are thousands of excellent sermons as well as creation talks by various speakers including Dr Kent Hovind at that you can download in mp3 format for free. I really recommend checking it out. Enjoy the listening.

  230. bloghog January 31, 2007 7:14 am Reply


    For someone who is a big fan of Hovind, you don’t seem to have seen too many of his videos or seminars. I’ve forced myself to watch them, take notes on them and even lived through a 3-day bloody painful ‘seminar’ of Hovind. I can assure you Kent did make those asinine statements. I take it you don’t understand the problems with Kent’s ice meteor or his speed of light quote? People like the message that Hovind is giving so they excuse his lies, his misrepresentations and his law-breaking. That’s exactly what David Koresh and Jim Jones preyed upon. Eventually, Kent could probably lead his followers into lawlessness and kool-aid. Instead, you might go through Kent’s videos and see where the lies and the scientific mis-statements are. I’ve given you two to begin with and you can’t even imagine why both are wrong at very fundamental and noncontroversial levels.

  231. mtlionsroar January 31, 2007 7:23 am Reply

    Praying for you Dr. Hovind. I check this site everyday (sometimes more than once) to see if there’s a new message from you. Can’t wait to get your address to write to you. My daughter has been doing your Algebra video’s and for the first time really understood math. Thank you again so much. How is it going where you are? Can’t wait to hear all the wonderful things God is doing through you. In the meantime, I’ll just keep bringing you before our Lord, your family & staff as well.

    Much love to you all,

  232. FuManchu January 31, 2007 9:40 am Reply

    It’s true that many academics have got angry and frustrated when debating Hovind. But does this indicate that they lost?

    For those of you with little sisters, think back to your childhood. Remember how angry you’d get when you argued with her? How every blindingly obvious point you made was ignored in favour of childish insults and an insistence that you must be wrong “just because”? You could argue for hours on end and never get anywhere.

    That is precisely how all those academics felt when debating Hovind – anger at the utter futility of it, and the ease with which every scientific point they made was undermined by rhetorical sleight of hand. Lest we forget, most scientists are not trained public speakers. Hovind, on the other hand, is a brilliant public speaker but not a scientist. That’s why he insists on public debates rather than written ones, despite numerous offers. Didn’t you ever wonder why you never see a Hovind argument on paper, only on video?

  233. bloghog January 31, 2007 10:31 am Reply

    Endtimes, one is tempted to answer your question with the simple reply

    “your message”

    I will happily respond to your question after you have answered mine.

  234. Samphire January 31, 2007 1:00 pm Reply

    Hi, Maturekid

    We didn’t get the Andy Griffith show over here so I’m not aware of Barney Fife but I get the meaning. Something like Emo Phillips becoming Principal Dancer for the New York Ballet?

    As for Matthew, he walks a slightly different road to me but in the same direction. I don’t think that he would benefit from or appreciate my mentoring.

    On KH v Darwin, I respectfully but forcefully disagree that KH has CD licked. Unfortunately, KH would never enter written debate and therefore could never be persuaded to concentrate on any subject in detail. In his seminars he has the attention span of the gnat I keep trying to swallow.

    As for the tax business, I don’t see any of the Gospel message in deliberating breaking the law. Many Americans perhaps don’t quite understand how blessed they are in living in the US compared with many other parts of the world. With the benefits come obligations.

    My best wishes to Mrs.H. tomorrow. I hope the court is merciful. Perhaps it will give her community service – maybe working in an IRS office responding to the letters from the usual crackpots.

    Kind regards


  235. Samphire January 31, 2007 1:06 pm Reply

    Hi, warocuya,

    I loved the Rosie O’Donnell quote – very funny. We don’t get her over here (there is a God after all!) but I have seen her on YouTube berating that guy with the big hair who is mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52. However, you can still get fat without a spoon – you Yanks who like McDonalds (there is a Satan, too!) use your bare hands – but, as Jesse James discovered, you can’t shoot somebody without a gun. Be that as it may, the emphasis of my point was that in Europe there is little disbelief in the ToE yet minimal slaughter of the general population by its members. Consequently, Hovind’s theory is falsified.

    As for beating KH in an IQ test – so what? Are you suggesting he has a higher IQ than had, say, Richard Feynman who always struck me as being fairly bright but held theological and scientific opinions opposite to those of KH? Feynman once said in an interview “It doesn’t seem to me that this fantastically marvellous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil – which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama.”

    Set against which is KH’s bon mot “That is not my wife. That is just a photograph of my wife”. Witty and getting wittier on each telling.

    If KH really does have the high IQ of which he boasts then he should be able to better analyse and correct and not just swallow wholesale every creationist error. He should also be able to find a decent lawyer.

    Perhaps you could give me an example of your allegation that evos try to keep the focus off evolution; my experience is I cannot actually get my Christian friends or relatives to even discuss the subject. But then I am a pain in the neck so cannot blame them.

    No breakfast in Hell – are you sure? All that gnashing of teeth and no bacon to chew? If true, I shall have to reconsider my position.

    Kind regards

  236. Samphire January 31, 2007 1:12 pm Reply

    Hi, Endtimes

    As you know, I am always extremely reticent to butt in uninvited (enormously wide grin) but you make an interesting point.

    Is it correct to call DNA a language? Languages tend to be two-way affairs whereas DNA is just a map. It’s the difference between me reading a map and my wife reading one on my behalf. In the first instance the map conveys information to me directly without response from me and, in the second, I receive information from the wife and then, sometime subsequently, respond with a certain amount of very private information to her at which point further discussion is suppressed. In the first case information is travelling along a one-way street from the map to me but, in the second, it is language, a two-way message, conveying the knowledge that I am driving the wrong way down a literal one-way street and seeking correct directions.

    If I go down to the seashore I can find all sorts of information which does not come from a Mind. The ripples in the sand tells me of the state of the sea when the ripples were made, the detritus on the foreshore tells me if the tide is in or out, the length of the shadows tells me the time of day, etc etc.

    In the case of DNA, self-replicating organisms never pass on the same map from one descendant to the next and, certainly, never back to the parent or across to siblings. Every map is different hence DNA paternity testing. Are you suggesting that the DNA in each individual organism is changed by a “Mind”?

    I anticipate that, in responding, you will distinguish between micro and macro evolution.

    With respect to your response to Matthew on prophecy it appears that according to your understanding of the Bible nuclear war over Judah is a done deal. Presumably, therefore, you want Iran to develop a nuclear bomb as soon as possible so we can bring on the Rapture without delay. Jesus is hovering on the sidelines eagerly waiting for battle to commence and any prayer for peace will go unresponded by God. At what point in this process do we ignore Matthew 5:9? Such counsels of despair can be self-fulfilling.

    Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

    Kind regards


    P.S. Please would you or some other kind person explain to this Limey what the reference to “kool-aid” means.

  237. PietroKoz January 31, 2007 2:12 pm Reply

    [quote]Let me know what school you attended. Harvard? Boston U? The only fool here is you.[/quote]

    So anyone who attends an Ivy League college is a secular elitist? Does that include George W. Bush (Yale)?

    [quote]As for Hovind winning the debates. You can tell on the faces of all those happy Ph.d’s who won. Bartelt for example was angry and clearly frustrated. Moore stayed on the topic of “kinds.” because he was soundly beaten and had no other evidence. Shermer finally said that if evolutionism isn’t taught then students can’t learn science. Wow, what did everyone do before evolutionism, teach baking? You remind me of Carl Marychurch. Hi Carl! Don’t like whose winning then change the rules. Why even theologians like Darwin can be scientists. OK then Dr. Kent Hovind is a scientists and his theory is better than Darwin’s or yours.

    Kent Hovind wins again.[/quote]

    I’ve seen a couple of these so-called debates between Hovind and science experts. The reason why the latter look so frustrated after speaking with him is because they were suckered into arguing evolution with someone (Hovind) who has no clue what he is talking about, and lacks the most fundamental knowledge of basic physics. A prime example: Hovind claiming in one debate that modern science does not understand the physical nature of light – which is high school science.

    I won’t even begin to get into Kent’s other “science” theories (i.e. “Beowulf” as evidence of human-dinosaur co-existence).

    Hovind has never won a debate on evolution because he doesn’t even understand the principles that make it up. He may be a nice man, and is entitled to his religious beliefs, but I frankly wouldn’t trust him to tell me the time accurately.

  238. Millerfamily6 January 31, 2007 2:18 pm Reply

    Said this at 9:44pm:

    Below is a disclaimer from my ministry (I have left the name blank in respect of CSE asking us to refrain from advertising on their site)

    Hello EndTimes,

    If you don’t mind, and if CSE wouldn’t mind, would you somehow be able to share with us (those who are interested in prophecy) your ministry website? I love to read up on endtime biblical prophecy!:0)

    A sister in Christ Jesus our Lord,

  239. GaryMurray January 31, 2007 2:19 pm Reply


    I don’t intend to get into a academic debate with you on anything. Not because I feel I might ‘lose’ or I might be ‘inferior’, I might and I might be; it’s because I feel that if I were to give you 99 facts that prove Creation over Evolution and 1 goes unexplained but not disproved, it still wouldn’t change your outlook. I do wonder how you can justify your claim that Hovind and his statements are false when he offers footnotes and viable references for his research. Have you trailed his references to make sure that these statements aren’t quotations of a well respected scientist, writing an article on his findings, or are you just assuming everything Mr. Hovind says is his own research? Yes, I know you have claimed to have seen Mr. Hovinds videos, however, did you check his references to see if they are false? If so, what did you find? If you believe his references are false, what is your evidence to prove otherwise, what are your footnotes and references? If indeed your evidence is true and his statements are false, why are you arguing with someone who quotes the statements of others rather than those who… made the false statements? I don’t want your opinion, I want your research. (there again considering that most ‘scientific’ research has a very wide margin of error (which is oddly enough, accepted by the scientific community), my hopes to see any valid proof is tiny.

    Secondly, the evolution theory is just that, a theory. Not proven and not disproven, but what has been ‘proven’ is a far stretch from physical and scientific fact.

    What astounds me most about those believing in evolution, is that they place such ‘faith’ in something that has never been absolutly proven or recorded over thousands (my mistake, Millions) of years. Yet, they deny recorded scripture of how things came to be by eyewitness accounts and truths passed down through generations. You weren’t there, you didn’t see it, but eyewitness accounts recorded in the Bible say it happened, and it happened a certain way. You can compare other anchient recordings than scripture and see that they coincide with scripture.

    In the vast new world of science and technology, scientists claim they can tell the size, shape, favorite color and how many grandkids a million year old water scorpion had, but they can’t go back 6,000 years and find proof or evidence that scripture is wrong, incorrect or false.

    Why is the theory of Creation so difficult for you to accept? It can’t be because you have to have Faith, though you must. Hebrews 11:1
    says “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” -KJV
    This certainly can’t be the reason you can’t accept Creationism because the same rule must be applied when believing Evolution. No one saw the rock, no one heard the ‘big bang’ and no one tasted the primordial sludge, but you have faith that it was there.

    God Bless,
    Gary Murray

    PS. Bro Kent, I hope you’re doing well, our prayers are with you and your family and ministry. Please don’t hesitate to have Eric contact us if there is anything we can do to help or aid.

  240. Gerda January 31, 2007 2:41 pm Reply

    Dear Hovind Family

    As I read some Commands I am sorry to see that some are against you. we know that God has a purpose for this to, and as you continue your minestry in prison.
    We know God has a reoson for that to.
    God bless you and your family. and remember God is in control.

    Keep on Keeping on

    Christian love Gerda

  241. Samphire January 31, 2007 5:39 pm Reply

    Note to the Editor,

    I notice that in my post concerning the ice meteor “theory” you have added a number of links without editorial comment.

    Are you aware that that the linked articles which you may not have read or understood actually support my rebuttal?

    Yours respectfully,


  242. voiceofreason January 31, 2007 5:53 pm Reply

    For anyone who read my earlier posts I used to post under the name fldastate.

    Dear GaryMurray et al,

    For anyone interested in the whether or not creation “science” is actually science I recommend a great book that will finally put to rest all of the creationist misrepresentations. I am in no way affiliated with this book or its author but I have found it to be the most comprehensive resource on the topic of creationism as science. The author is a an emeritus professor of geomorphology at Columbia, and he does a thorough presentation of almost every branch of science, explains what we know and how we know it, then goes into details of specific documented instances when creationists have distorted the information. He also gives hundreds of examples of how people like Kent Hovind, cherry pick quotes from scientists and misrepresent what they are saying to fit with there creationist ideas. It is the most straight forward and unbiased presentation of science available.

    I encourage all creationists to read it and weep. You guys can all join me for breakfast in H— [EDITED – then book title mentioned by poster is called:  “Science and Earth History: The Evolution/Creation Controversy” by Strahler ]

    I’m still waiting for a response from that conspiracy theorist Mr. Comstock, I love you man. Where have you been? I miss your colorful posts.

  243. voiceofreason January 31, 2007 6:12 pm Reply

    To EndTimes, (my new Gordon Comstock)

    You are not quite as good as Mr. Comstock, but since he is MIA your doomsday rantings will have to suffice. Keep up the crazy talk, I love it. I am just curious if you really think the world is coming to an end. If so, how many years are you predicting we have left?

    Every generation since the disciples thought God was coming back in their lifetime, and they were all wrong. Sorry to break it to you, but you will also be proven wrong. The book of revelation is a veiled criticism of the Roman Empire and is meant to be read as such. Trying to read it as a road map to the end of the world is simply a misreading of an ancient text.

    Samphire and Bloghog, good work your posts are usually pretty funny for the right reasons.

    Warucoya and Xchampion91 keep the laughs coming as well, I’m not sure if you meant all of those posts to be funny, but I enjoyed them just the same.

    Hoping God doesn’t return before this comment posts.

    The Voice of Reason

  244. gmanmp1821 January 31, 2007 6:19 pm Reply

    I can relate to Kent Hovinds situation because my sister was taken away from my family by the government. And while she was in the care of the government she was molested, abused, tossed from foster home to foster home, and was caused to forget all of the teachings that my parents were successful in instilling into me. She was gone for three years. This would have been the most important time of her life from the age of 11-14. When the government gave her back she was rebellious and filled with all sorts of vile attitudes. By this time she was irreconcilable and virtually set in her sinful ways. The damage done by the government to my sister continues to this day. She got married at the age of 17 with two kids. She has always been involved in drug abuse at one time or another and now at the age of 22 she is married to her second husband. The damage goes much deeper.
    I believe everything that was Kent Hovind’s side of the story. He is a man of God. I would trust him before I ever trusted the government. Our government however even though there are some good people involved is over all full of lies, deceit, and persecution of the righteous. Satan is working all his plans out to move this world towards a one world government beautifully and it is affecting all believers whether they realize it or not.
    I call all who believe on the name of the Lord Jesus to pray for our government and never forget that when you pray for your government you pray not for the people in congress but you pray for yourself and everyone around you.
    We are a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. You and I are the government not those gestapo police that raided the home of a harmless and innocent man and his wife who did nothing but try to help people go to heaven. I cannot believe our tax dollars go to support something like what happened on that night.
    The Lord sent Kent Hovind into my life at just the right time. Evolution was taking its grip. Then God sent His message through Kent Hovind to me. After that I got Kent Hovind to come and talk at the University of Southern Mississippi and have been a strong supporter ever since.
    What has happened to Kent Hovind is an injustice and He is indeed under religious persecution. I wish I could do something about it. I am so disturbed over the fact that my pastor told me that he wants nothing to do with Kent Hovind because he thinks that Kent Hovind made a mistake on the tax issue. He even attacked Kent Hovinds degree issue. I almost felt like leaving the church, but I am still there and I will continue as long as the Lord directs me to remain.
    I will pray for that is our most powerful tool. And by the way Agent Schnieder should have felt physically threatened because the only reason that He is still breathing on this earth at this moment is because the Lord God Almighty Six Day Creator of Heaven and Earth has not struck him down.
    Kent Hovind has a vast reward waiting in heaven for him.
    Christians do not forget our common heritage that we all share in Gods word and keep your eyes toward heaven.

  245. Samphire January 31, 2007 7:22 pm Reply

    Hi, bloghog,

    I hope you don’t mind if I intrude and have a go at GaryMurray. Thank you.

    He said: “it’s because I feel that if I were to give you 99 facts that prove Creation over Evolution and 1 goes unexplained but not disproved, it still wouldn’t change your outlook.”

    Well, GaryMurray, let us have your 99 facts and we will try to rebut them. I am sure that we will do far better than one. Give us the “facts” and the footnotes and we will have a go. The modern history of creationism is one of misdirection, misquotation and quote mining. Although a frequent word in KH’s vocabulary, I refrain from using the word “lying”.

    You appear confused over the difference between the meaning of “Evolution” and the “Theory of Evolution”. This is regrettable because it has been explained many, many times and it defeats me why YECs have trouble understanding it. It is the difference between the fact and the explanation of the facts. Fact: Johnny dropped his ice-cream. Theory: Johnny dropped his ice-cream because, from the evidence of the bruise on the side of Johnny’s head, Freddy may have hit him with the baseball bat which he is presently trying to hide behind his back.

    I apologise if the example is unnecessarily graphic for our more sensitive visitors.

    You are correct in stating the truism that the Theory of Evolution is just a theory. That is why it is called a theory. But you may not understand what a theory is to a scientist. It is not a postulate or a hypothesis but an explanation of why things happen based upon testable evidence and observation. Evolution is an observed fact (whether creationists like it or not) – it is what has been observed to happen or assumed to have happened based upon extensive evidence. On the other hand, the Theory of Evolution explains how it happened. The explanation may prove wrong or insufficient in time but, for the moment, it is the best explanation for the observations. So, Evolution and the Theory of Evolution are two completely separate things.

    Contrary to your assertion, no-one places any faith in the ToE. It just happens to be the best explanation to the vast majority of scientists working in the relevant fields for what is observed. If future observations show that the theory is insufficient to account for them then the theory will be dumped or modified. The Phlogiston theory was dumped but the Platonic theory of a planar universe was modified by Einstein.

    Do you believe that any rational scientist would agree to be burnt at the stake for his “faith” rather than admit his theory was wrong? Surely he would say “Either I’m wrong in which case what is the point in being set on fire or else, if my theory is correct, others will prove it so in due time so let’s stay cool and agree it’s wrong”. Like Galileo, he may utter something different sotto voce. Only a brave but stupid religionist would agree to being burnt for an unprovable belief. So much for religion “per dogma”.

    May I suggest, GaryMurray, that you move away from evolution for a moment or two. When it is next dark and clear overhead and the camera in the Hubble telescope has been repaired (at American taxpayers’ entire expense), pop out into your garden, look up into the sky and ask yourself this question: “If the universe is only six thousand years old, how is it I can see back in time some 3 billion years and look at snaps of how it used to be?”. Now, there is an impossible conundrum for YECs.

    Kind regards


    P.S. Doubtless, our Editor will append links to Barry Setterfield’s abysmal work on the alleged change in the speed of lght over time.

  246. Samphire January 31, 2007 7:48 pm Reply

    Hi, Selena,

    I have to admit that I am ignorant of American Law and I may be treading on sinking sand. But, in trepidation……….

    When a jury goes into a jury room is it given any law books? If not, what do you mean in stating “….they could not find a law….”? The jury is made up of lay people and is not expected to know the law – surely, that is for the judge to decide and advise.

    Neither is it for the judge to “give any evidence”. The evidence is given in the trial by the witnesses and it is for the jury to decide on the truth of that evidence. In the present case – did the defendant file or not file?

    If the trial judge failed adequately to direct the jury do you believe that the IRS would not have appealed the case on that ground? If they did not do so then presumably the prosecuting attorney thought the judge had acted properly notwithstanding it was against the IRS’s interests.

    Yours, somewhat bemused,


    His mark X

  247. EndTimes January 31, 2007 9:02 pm Reply

    My dear Bloghog,

    Question #1

    It appears that you are referencing Einstein’s special theory of relativity which ventures that any measurement of the speed of light in any inertial frame will always give 186,300 miles per second no matter what the velocities of the observers. It would be quite interesting to see the origin of your alleged quotation. Nevertheless, Mr. Bloghog, you have a much more pressing question for all of eternity than any true or untrue remarks on special relativity. What is the relative time expansion of an eternity in hell fires if you were to approach the speed of light in absolute darkness? Silly question I agree, but the truth of eternity without Christ makes any apparent contradictions of Einstein’s special relativity a rather trivial matter. If you do forsake the Lord and the salvation that he has freely offered to anyone who will call upon His name, then you will have all eternity to solve this and many other questions that you did not answer properly in this lifetime. It is my prayer that you will instead accept Christ as your Saviour and spend all eternity in His glory.

    Question #2

    I will defer to Paul Abramson’s comments:

    [EDITOR’S NOTE] “Magnetic and electric effects on water”

    -and- “Is Snow or Ice Magnetic?”

    -and- “Is ice magnetic at very low temperatures approaching zero kelvin?”

    The book mentioned above, The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch, is free to download from on-line at:

    Now, having answered your questions as you requested, I would ask you to bravely venture an answer to the question that I proposed to you, but I will also kindly give you the answer. The question comes from a website by a man named Perry Marshall. He gives an easily defined and logical answer that is indeed the smoking gun against the theory of evolution. As Mr. Perry Marshall explains, the materialistic explanation of the universe and the “evolution” of higher animal forms and mankind cannot through chaos theory or any other evolutionary theory explain the origination of “coded information.” He explains further the widely known fact that all DNA is indeed a language of life subject to linguistic tools and analysis. The problem for evolutionists is that the random accumulation of matter and energy cannot ever develop into “coded information.” This is physically impossible. Chaos theory can produce quite beautiful examples of complex “information” but never “coded information” which is always from a mind and shows will, intent and purpose.

    So again my dear Bloghog, please prove this one statement wrong in a sensible and logical manner if you can. The presence of a DNA language proves that an intelligent being communicated this coded information with every living cell and also equipped that living cell with the means to receive and understand that coded message. So please give me your best answer on how you can explain the presence of DNA coded information without showing an intelligent designer did it by materialistic evolutionary principles. My “message” is very simple, God created us to fellowship with Him for all eternity. It is my prayer that you will someday know that simple truth.

    1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

  248. EndTimes January 31, 2007 9:19 pm Reply

    Dear Paul Abramson, CSE, Dr. Hovind and Eric Hovind,

    If the current sentence of Dr. Hovind is not overturned, then this blog may be his only means of continuing his public ministry. In such, CSE and Dr. Hovind may need to consider entering into email debates which is indeed quite time consuming but ironically, may now be his only means of continuing a public ministry. I for one look forward to what he has to say to supporters and critics alike. My prayers of course would be to have the entire affair reversed but that appears to be a long shot. Nevertheless, Dr. Hovind and CSE are in our prayers and I am thankful for the influence in the lives of my own family that he has had. May God bless in all ways.

  249. warocuya January 31, 2007 10:22 pm Reply


    Let me clarify. Are you saying that I am misinterpreting Exodus 20:11?
    After studing Hebrew for 6 years as well as greek for 3, I think I am a better authority than you. (Having graduated with a Masters in the subject… – That’s only if you are challenging me).

    P.S. if Kent Hovind didn’t win those debates, then why are the scoffers here. How many people side with a boxer that loses. Not many. So the skeptics and scoffers are here because Dr. Hovind hurt their beliefs. Watch the “Berkley Here’s the Truth Debate.” Wow, they must be really upset that their fairy tale couldn’t stand up to a high school teacher.

    Paul Abramson can testify what a great debate that was. Only $9.99 or $9.95 at CSE. I thought Hovind was going to get killed. Anyway, it’s nice to know that evolutionists are kind and thoughtful folks.

    Well dear friends – Jesus is coming soon because he tells us of these times and when we see all these things coming to past Look Up for our redemption draws nigh.Luke 21:28
    The rest of you can stay here and sing – “We are the world…”


  250. Kelly in Idaho February 1, 2007 12:16 am Reply

    Dear Brother Kent and Sister Jo,

    My family’s heart has been aching for you since we heard the news. I just want to encourage you to remain strong in the faith and please know that much seed, which the Lord has used you for to plant into our lives, is being spread abroad into the lives of the believers who have believed the lie of theo-evolution and the unbeliever. I have watched your videos for many years, and it is amazing at how the Father is bring back things to my remembrance from your catalog and videos to speak to my college Psychology class and instructor.

    “The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

    “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

    See you here, there, or up in the air.
    Your sister because of Jesus,

  251. leeharper February 1, 2007 2:36 am Reply

    God Bless You Brother Hovind, and know that Jesus loves you.

    Looking forward to your posted update as soon as you’re relocated to your new “harvest field”.

    I’m praying for you, your wife and family.

    Thank you for your faithfulness and obedience to our Lord.

    – Lee Harper

  252. CreationCD February 1, 2007 3:01 am Reply

    Debate 18 Berkeley finally hears the truth.

    (In which my daughter laughs at a teacher.)

    — Pardon my delaying so long; California is trying to pass a no spanking law. They want to test munitions using spent uranium shells (and tritium???) in the hills above my town, and we had a horrifying fatal accident outside our high school.

    Sorry, this debate is not on google. I had to dust off my DVD. I still have never watched it all the way through.

    While the teachers at Berkeley were invited to debate Dr. Hovind and were even offered money to debate they all declined. Instead the students were invited to show up early for pizza and soda and were given pamphlets taking excerpts of Dr. Hovind’s statements from his seminars and truth radio shows and spotlighting some of his legal problems. I’m sure Carl Marychurch (CMarychurch) can give you the full list from his anti-Hovind website, all the lists are pretty much the same. I didn’t arrive in time for the anti-Hovind seminar, but I did receive some of the pamphlets.

    It’s amazing that the teachers who didn’t want to debate, did want to present their side of the story before the seminar at their own expense and bought the food to draw the crowd.


    These are some posts from atheist, anti-creationist websites the week before the seminar. Dr. Hovind displayed these at the beginning of his seminar.

    These are the followers of great brains like Frank Zeldner.
    I’m glad my daughter isn’t learning rational thinking from them.

    Atheist forum week of 4-6-04 before the dabate:
    His supporters will be doing their best to pack the audience. You do the same. This will make it more interesting, as Hovind is a master debater and can have a creationist audience in the palm of his hand, so to speak. Having an audience containing an element hostile to his propaganda will put him off his stride. Loud laughter every time he tells a whopper, or just a collective audible intake of breath, may have the desired effect on him. – Mike Dworetsky

    But a .50 cal machine gun may not be quite the thing for this job. You want to leave the audience members intact if possible. Otherwise you’re going to create a lot of bad feeling on every side. Why spray all those bullets around. – David Ewan Kahana

    Responding to the Previous:
    Why? They’re all creationists anyway. I’m still going with the artillery shell. – Lenny Flank

    Well, whatever does the job is fine with me. I just thought to use a large caliber to let him leave the final stage with a real bang … after all, it will be the only_honest_thing he’ll ever do on stage. No? :) – Thore Schmechtig.

    But what worries me in this case is that someone may decide this is the “American solution” to Hovind. For all that he is a slimy piece of intellectual _ _ _ _ , this is after all an intellectual dispute. Threatening to harm him is not appropriate, not legitimate and not good policy (where do you stop). Shall we shoot door to door evangelists whose idea we don’t like ?) Jokes have this nasty tendency to turn to actions.- John Wikins

    True enough. I was only thinking that seeing the effect a .50 cal anti-personnel round can have on the human body at close range might scare even an audience of creationists into reconsidering their views. Too few of us have a really good appreciation for human anatomy. If you ask me. – David Ewan Kahana


    I had asked Dr. Hovind two hours before at his San Francisco State seminar if I could pass out CD’s of his seminars to the students there, so we began passing out CD’s and Chick Tracks. I know Paul Abramson was passing out Chick Tracks also, but when Skip came up to challenge Dr. Hovind my daughter was very concerned because she remembered Skip asking her specifically for the Big Daddy Track she had in her hand.

    As others have pointed out, Dr. Hovind’s purpose has always been to spread the gospel. I have asked him at several events if I could pass out his seminars on CD (and told him I wouldn’t if he objected). Even though he was selling his seminars at the event, he always said yes. So much for greed.

    At the 53 minute mark on the DVD, I’m the bald guy in the audience resting his chin on his thumb and forefinger. My daughter is sitting beside me toward the camera, my wife is on my other side. My son is two seats down from her.

    At 59 minutes Skip Evans from the NCSE comes forward with the Chick Track BIG DADDY which Dr. Hovind helped write. This Track can be read at

    Skip questioned the phrase “nearly all experts agree Lucy was just a 3-foot chimpanzee.” and asked Dr. Hovind for a list of such experts. Skip, who knows Dr. Hovind’s power point presentation, immediately disqualifies all the people listed in Dr. Hovind’s slides prior to him even getting there.

    I remember thinking, If I’d had my copy of Evolution Cruncher I could have added more names. (I’m planning on getting some extra slides together to add into my copy of Dr. Hovind’s power point, plus I put the downloadable evolution cruncher on my power point CD’s.)

    ** Note to Eric, if your monitoring: the professional skeptics have your dad’s seminars and they know what’s covered and not covered.

    1:48 – 1:55 Michelle Barstine (?) Post doctoral fellow in the Biology department with a PhD in genetics
    “Do you believe dogs are related to bananas”
    “Ultimately, yes”.

    “Do you believe that dogs, bananas and humans ultimately came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago?”
    She objects, its not a fair question, … never answers.
    She talks about the similarities between fruit flies and humans … immune system evolution …

    Dr. Hovind asks if this could be evidence of a common designer …

    She agrees and pulls out a tract by Dr. Frank Collins …She says, Dr. Frank Collins is a Christian who is a scientist who believes in evolution and that she [a Berkeley teacher] distributed these tracks prior to the seminar and tells everyone that many Christians find no problem believing in evolution.

    My daughter leaned over to me and laughed during the first part, because she couldn’t believe what she heard and she told me something like, I can’t believe that a teacher really believes she’s related to a banana.

    2:32 Second to last question and answer,an un-named young man steps up.
    Kent Hovind, “Eight years ago in Canada when I pulled out my Swiss army knife and said if you think the tailbone is vestigial, I will pay to have yours removed and you then wrote an article in your paper that I threatened you with my pocket knife. … You were 75 feet away.”

    I think this debate / seminar protrays the evolutionist camp quite well.

    As far as your concern for my daughter and poor creationist children in general; I have a copy of Beka Book’s Biology textbook for high school as well as secular biology books. I plan to show them on my table if I ever get to give a presentation. The Beka Book for home schooled kids has far more science and information in it.

    In California, where I live, the Christian schools are suing the Universities of California for not accepting certain Christian based courses as meeting high school graduation requirements thereby making certain students ineligible for enrollment. Now the same colleges lament about how much time and effort it takes to teach secular students the math, english and science they should have learned in high school so it’s not that their education is lacking. It has also been shown that most home school and Christian school kids score above there secular peers on entrance exams. It might be that once students learn facts about science and history that disagree with main stream beliefs and those students can do the research to prove their point they become an unwanted embarrassment to their teachers. One of the examples given a local newspaper actually says that students from Christian schools might not “understand” the supreme court’s ruling of separation of Church and State if their studies had focused on the writings of Thomas Jefferson too extensively.

  253. CreationCD February 1, 2007 4:21 am Reply

    The Watchmaker:

    Has any one of you (creationist or evolutionist) ever read William Paley’s NATURAL THEOLOGY.

    The man was logical and thorough. (And an Englishman, Samphire you ought to read him, so many great theologians came from England.) He dealt with the implications of a watch that reproduces, that may not keep exact time, that may grow old and wear out. I think evolutionists either have never read it or if they did they simplify his logic down to a straw man argument since we hear things like, “Paley’s watch is not the product of self-replication and is therefore irrelevant to the TOE.”[Samphire, Jan 26, 7:59] Dawkins doesn’t do much better.

    Once again after reviewing the watchmaker argument I would like you to watch the videos of ATP synthase.

    and bacterial flagellum.

    and DNA replication and transcription

    To put a modern spin on it. Imagine a computer controlled robot arm that can build another computer controlled robot arm, that can build … etc.

    Assume PG&E will supply all the power and receptacles.

    Assume all the computer has to do is call and order parts by part number and they will be delivered. (These last two are not out of line compared to the evolutionists everlasting monkeys and typewriters, and endless paper and ink in another well known argument.)

    Assume random glitches in the program occur (which can be copied to the computer being built and therefore passed on).

    Assume there are advantages to arms that can build faster, or have greater reach, computers that dial faster or can make substitutions for parts or some such.

    Will the robot arms evolve into mobile robots (like the Lost in Space robot) or orbiting space shuttle arms or some such …

    Or will the mechanisms devolve until they all fall apart or until they exist as groups of arms that have various design flaws and operate just above the minimum requirements to reproduce.

    Information theory and observation of mechanical systems (I’m a mechanic at a hamburger plant) might lead us to one conclusion, while devotion to evolution theory might lead us to expect another.

    Samphire, enjoy your lunch beneath Darwin’s statue and watch the students pour into the museum of Natural History and make sure the museum’s displays are adequate. Our church is supporting at least one missionary to London and before he left I gave him Kent Hovind’s DVD’s as well as Dr. Hovind’s power point presentations and the downloadable power points by Mike Riddle, Bruce Malone, Chris Ashcroft, etc. from

    I would really encourage you to watch Bruce Malone’s video: Why America is Losing
    its Christian Heritage. The first part deals a little with England’s decline of Christianity.

    Our church is praying hard for revival. England has started several revivals that spread to America (and the rest of the world). I would encourage everyone to study what God has done and can do in the great revivals and pray.

    Free Mp3 seminars on revival history.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  254. bloghog February 1, 2007 9:59 am Reply


    The two statements I posted here are non-controversial, elementary physics questions that Hovind misrepresents. What’s worse is that I have personally sent these corrections to Hovind only to find that he ignored them. A first-year physics major could point out the errors in both of those statements. If you want references, pick up an elementary physics book. Again, these errors are non-controversial parts of science. While you’re at it, you might want to look up the definition of a scientific theory. You seem to be using the colloquial meaning of theory rather than the scientific definition. The evidence is vast and deep which shows that the earth is old and evolution has occurred. One must misrepresent all of astronomy, physics, geology, biology and chemistry in order to assert otherwise. By the way, I am a Christian who finds Hovinds apologetics both fundamentally and scripturally flawed. Furthermore, I don’t hide behind false credentials as does Hovind with his mail-order Ph.D. Now, are you able to spot the fundamental scientific flaws in those statements or not?

  255. darling February 1, 2007 10:36 am Reply

    Jan30 selena said this at 2:37pm:

    “”In this case, the problem the jurors had was, they could not find a law that stated this man had to file income taxes, nor would the judge provide one, or written documentation of one.””

    It’s funny, this only becomes an issue in tax protester cases.

    The jury’s job is to determine questions of fact. The judge instructs the jury on the law. The jury’s job is to apply the facts to the law.

    When else have you ever heard of the jury asking for the statute? Should every trial require the necessary detailed lessons to the jury in constitutional law, statutory interpretation, stare decisis, dicta, binding and non-binding precedent, etc. etc.?

    “”are you suggesting they should have thrown his butt in jail anyway, just because he was charged!?!?””

    I’m suggesting they should have upheld their oath and followed the jury instructions. Instead, it sounds like at least one of them tried to turn themselves into an armchair attorney.

    “”I think this particular jury, for once, thank God, stood against the IRS, and found an innocent man not guilty.””

    How could they stand against the IRS, when this was a state – not federal – trial?

    Anyway, it looks like Whitey Harrall is up in court again in the next few weeks. Same charges, but for the years after the trial. It’s going to be hard to use the Cheek defense against ‘wilfulness’ this time.

  256. darling February 1, 2007 11:37 am Reply

    EndTimes, I’ve read and re-read your post and I must confess, I am somewhat confused. It might be because you didn’t directly answer my questions, but please correct me if I have anything wrong:

    I understand your choice to reject the privilege of 501(c) status – you don’t want the state to control your church – but that simply means you are a for-profit organization. (And, as a for-profit, the new rules in 1984 for non-profit withholding are irrelevant.)

    Houwever, it seems that you still want special treatment, based on the first amendment. Even though the first amendment is not (and cannot) be an absolute prohibition on government action. And it’s at this point that I’m afraid you’ve lost me.

  257. darling February 1, 2007 11:53 am Reply

    Jan31 – warocuya said this at 10:22pm

    “Let me clarify. Are you saying that I am misinterpreting Exodus 20:11?”

    I’m saying it’s a possibility – and one that you seemed unwilling to contemplate.
    Hence your false dichotomy.

    “After studing Hebrew for 6 years as well as greek for 3, I think I am a better authority than you. (Having graduated with a Masters in the subject… – That’s only if you are challenging me).”

    Are you saying that everybody who has studied Hebrew for 6 years as well as greek for 3, having graduated with a Masters in the subject – comes to the same conclusion as you?

  258. darling February 1, 2007 11:58 am Reply

    EndTimes asked: 1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

    Everything that I call a “message” comes from at least one mind – my own.

  259. awright33 February 1, 2007 12:03 pm Reply

    America was founded on God centered Christian principles. It is not just me saying it, you should read this countries Constitution, God is mentioned all through it. Sorry atheists that’s just the way it is. Atheism is for people with a lack of morals, who are scared to think that maybe they will be held responsible for their actions someday. It really doesn’t matter to me if you don’t believe God is real or not because we will all know someday when we die. Except I won’t be one of those standing before God trying to explain why I didn’t believe in Him. That’s going to be a tough day for atheists and agnostics. Christians like Kent Hovind and I are just doing our duty to Christ, by spreading the truths found in scripture. It is up to you to accept or reject that Jesus died for your sins. If you reject it that’s your choice but at least we’ve done our part. No one is trying to force Christianity on anyone. All I see is a bunch of atheists getting defensive because they feel convicted by their own consciences. My family and I are praying for you Mr. Hovind.

  260. EndTimes February 1, 2007 12:35 pm Reply

    Dear voiceofreason,

    It would suffice to leave the word reason off of your call name if you are going to prove to all that you do not understand the basic meaning of the word. Definition:

    1. That which is thought or which is alleged in words, as the ground or cause of opinion, conclusion or determination.
    2. The cause, ground, principle or motive of any thing said or done; that which supports or justifies a determination, plan or measure.
    3. Efficient cause.
    4. Final cause.
    5. A faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes truth from falsehood, and good from evil, and which enables the possessor to deduce inferences from facts or from propositions.

    My dear voice of reason, you assert propositions and insinuations of conclusions on my part which I have not drawn. I would point out to you that that is an irrational approach to assign false statements to my account in a logical debate that is easily disproved and countermanded by reason of truth. I have never ventured a date for the coming of our Lord Jesus because the day and the hour is known only to the Father in heaven. I am glad to see that you have bought into the preterist fallacy of the book of Revelation because it is the easiest eschatological premise to prove by reason of factual and historical evidence as false. Please show me when the events outlined in the book of Revelation were fulfilled by the Roman Empire. You must have an incredibly vivid imagination to believe such facts credited to the history of the Roman Empire. I must have missed that time in history when one third of the fish in the sea died after the waters turned to blood. And of course I don’t recall the date when all men received a mark in their right hand or forehead and those that didn’t were killed and the whole world could not buy or sell without this mark in a one world government and one world monetary system. I must have been sleeping in my college history classes because I don’t remember that part of the Roman Empire. Perhaps you could give us a line by line dissertation of the history of the Roman Empire based on the book of Revelation. But if not, please continue to impress us with your scholarly approach to the use of reason in your arguments.

    I would suggest an excellent place to learn of the truth of reason which is a gift from God above from an ancient prophet that spoke of Jesus 700 years before he came in Isaiah chapter 53. In Isaiah 1:18, the Bible tells us “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red as crimson, they shall be white as snow.” Nowhere does the Lord tell us to leave our mind and our reason outside the door when we come to Christ. I would suggest that you spend some time pondering the 5th definition listed above and come to know by reason the truth of good and evil. And when you do, come before Jesus in repentance of your sins and He will receive you. This is my prayer for you.

    Lastly, why don’t you give me an answer to Perry Marshall’s riddle for atheists listed above since after all you are a voice of reason. This riddle should be quite easy for you.

    1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

  261. EndTimes February 1, 2007 12:55 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire, darling and friends,

    I have placed a sampling of comments about the language of DNA from evolution friendly sites. Yes, the issue of coded messages and languages is an essential fact of modern molecular biology. I would consider time spent debating whether it is a “code” is quite unfruitful for your colleagues in this business will disagree with you. Here are three examples:

    Language in junk DNA

    You’ve probably heard of a molecule called DNA, otherwise known as “The Blueprint Of Life”. Molecular biologists have been examining and mapping the DNA for a few decades now. But as they’ve looked more closely at the DNA, they’ve been getting increasingly bothered by one inconvenient little fact – the fact that 97% of the DNA is junk, and it has no known use or function! But, an usual collaboration between molecular biologists, cryptoanalysists (people who break secret codes), linguists (people who study languages) and physicists, has found strange hints of a hidden language in this so- called “junk DNA”.

    So now, around the edge of the new millennium, we have a reasonable understanding of the 3% of the DNA that makes amino acids, proteins and babies. And the remaining 97% – well, we’re pretty sure that there is some language buried there, even if we don’t yet know what it says. It might say “It’s all a joke”, or it might say “Don’t worry, be happy”, or it might say “Have a nice day, lots of love, from your friendly local DNA”.

    © Karl S. Kruszelnicki Pty Ltd 2003.

    DNA, the Language of Evolution: Francis Crick & James Watson

    DNA may be the most famous molecule in the world today, but it came to the attention of scientists rather late in the history of biology. Gregor Mendel found some of the underlying regularities of heredity almost a century before DNA was discovered. At the turn of the century scientists discovered similar principles then rediscovered Mendel’s work and rapidly realized that life was somehow encoded in genes. Just what those genes were made of was a mystery, but that did not prevent scientists from starting to work out the dynamics of genes and mutations, and how new forms of life could result from natural selection. The Modern Synthesis of evolution, the foundation on which most research on evolution has rested for the past 50 years, was already set in place years before DNA was discovered.

    What does DNA language look like?

    DNA is also a code. It is written in only four ‘letters’, called A, C, T and G. So DNA language looks like this…
    The meaning of this code lies in the sequence of the letters A, T, C and G in the same way that the meaning of a word lies in the sequence of alphabet letters. Different languages use different alphabets to convey meaning.

    So once again:

    1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

  262. EndTimes February 1, 2007 1:20 pm Reply

    Dear darling,

    Said this at 11:37am:

    EndTimes, I’ve read and re-read your post and I must confess, I am somewhat confused. It might be because you didn’t directly answer my questions, but please correct me if I have anything wrong:
    I understand your choice to reject the privilege of 501(c) status – you don’t want the state to control your church – but that simply means you are a for-profit organization. (And, as a for-profit, the new rules in 1984 for non-profit withholding are irrelevant.)

    Houwever, it seems that you still want special treatment, based on the first amendment. Even though the first amendment is not (and cannot) be an absolute prohibition on government action. And it’s at this point that I’m afraid you’ve lost me.

    My dear darling, I agree that you appear confused on this issue as you are on others as well. You tell me by your power of reason that since I declined non-profit status through our government that in your mind means that I must be a for-profit organization. Has it ever occurred to you that I don’t receive any money from any outside sources and that my ministry is simply that, a ministry(not a church)that I give freely of my own accord of my own proceeds where I do not sell anything. Instead, I freely give with the expectation of receiving nothing in return. So your assumption that I am a for-profit organization is a poor assumption on your part. I thus ask for nothing more than the rights given to all Americans, but I now live my life in the expectation that those rights freely given years ago are now being abrogated by those people who swore to uphold and protect them.

    In 1987, I took the Oath of a commissioned officer for the United States Army to uphold and protect the constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. I have not resigned that commission and I am still obligated to that oath even though I am no longer an active duty service member. In commission of this I oath, I readily noted that I might be placed in a position where my life was given in service of protecting the United States constitution. Yet, those that hold the political power in this country have not been as faithful as countless good men who did give the ultimate sacrifice simply for a little piece of paper written hundreds of years ago. My dear darling, what do you suppose was the justification in their minds as they laid down their lives for you and me? Please answer me this simple question and you may begin to understand what you confess you don’t now understand. May God grant you the wisdom to know and understand this simple issue of freedom and liberty.

    My last paragraph summarizes my position quite succinctly, so I am not sure where your confusion comes from:

    “Therefore, this ministry will not solicit nor accept any tax deductible donations, nor will it seek any voluntary governmental protections under the 501(c)(3) tax code. This ministry will instead, continue to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth (unhindered by IRS tax codes) and the full counsel of God to all who have ears to hear and eyes to see until our Lord takes us home to be with Him forever more.”

    Most kindly, EndTimes.

  263. xchampion91 February 1, 2007 1:27 pm Reply

    I am glad that you find me funny voiceofreason? If I may ask you a question, what exactly convinced you that evolution has taken place? That goes for all other skeptics who post here as well. I encourage each of you to be honest.
    I am eagerly awaiting your reasons and responses. If I may postulate here in regards to your overbearing attitude (which is evident in your tone of writing), I think that the one who rules you (who is Satan whether you like it, believe it or not) has snowballed you into this farce so you can enjoy the lawlessness of your heart and your inability to bend your neck for anything or anyone. The superiority that you feel comes directly from the attitude of the one who rules you. Just like Lucifer in the garden, you believe that you are smarter, more powerful and even better than the Creator. I know that these words will fall on deaf ears but I have to try anyway. At least once.
    Indeed most of the skeptics here are certainly more educated than I, but I will like to say that education is easy, truth is exponentially more difficult to comprehend if you do not have Christ. He is the source of all knowledge and one day you will know this, I pray that it isn’t too late.
    Your friend in Christ!!

  264. warocuya February 1, 2007 2:02 pm Reply


    What I am saying is that I am more qualified than you.
    My professor wrote the standard book for Hebrew in almost every university that studies Hebrew.
    Chances are I am right. God said 6 days. In Hebrew that means 6 days. Genesis in Hebrew literally says day 1, day 2, day 3 … .

    Yes God made evrything in 6 days or He’s a liar. But He’s not.


  265. marion February 1, 2007 2:09 pm Reply

    Hi, I pray every night for Dr. Hovind. His DVD’s opened my eyes. It must be hard for him, staying in Prison. I can feel a pain in my heart and my stomach while I’m praying for him and his family. When I walk through the streets I also often think of Mr. Hovind, that he’s not able to do this anymore. Many unkwown christians are in prison today and suffering. We need to pray for protection and strength for all of our brothers and sisters and never forget them. God bless you all!

    Marion (netherlands)

  266. xchampion91 February 1, 2007 2:35 pm Reply

    Why do you not answer the question that was posed by endtimes. Could it be that you don’t have an answer?
    I love the way you come across, obviously superior to us Christians, and obviously that is a joke.

    Where do you get the idea that the 1st amendment has limitations? Please show me your reasoning here as I am in the dark to your argument. The 1st says emphatically that we the people have the right to practice as we will, speak as we will, assemble as we will and call to account our own government. That should also go for satanism and all the others. If we truly are a free country (which we are not anymore), I pose that the government has suspended at least the first amendment for its own agenda, more control and power in the hands of the few. Sounds a little like socialism or maybe feudalism? I am sure with appropriate research you could find many examples of this happening all over in this country, and not just in regards to religion. Private property rights are getting pretty thin and the death tax is absolutely horrible. Even more sinister is the fact that we are quickly losing the right to free speech as well. I personally know of a pastor that was arrested for expressing his views on the gay rights issue. In a free country where the government follows its own constitution, this would have never happened! But it is happening now in this country. Not in Russia, Cuba or China. Here in America!

    Darling I hope that when they come to your house, bust in the door and arrest you for expressing yourself (which probably won’t happen since you seem to like being the serf) I hope you remember to call out to God to save you. He will if you believe in his Son Jesus and call on his name. Whether or not the globalists put this in effect sooner or later, it is obvious that the trend in our society is just that … socialism, communism, feudalism. Take your pick it all means the same thing… No freedom, slavery of the masses and horrible enforcement of their will (not yours). Watch Orwell’s 1984 for an accurate account of what is coming. Good luck!
    It is interesting to think that the only religion that is really being persecuted in this country as well as across the globe is Christianity. Why is that? Why do all other religions have the right to practice freely in this country? Is it because the Christians don’t cow down to the all-powerful government, don’t take the license to practice? I think I’ve hit the solution of the problem right there. God bless Kent Hovind for his stand to wake up the Apostate body of the church.
    Christian, as I have said before it is time to choose sides.

    The generations of the past have not heeded the signs of the times. They incorrectly made decisions based on their interpretations of prophecy (and I know your argument is going to be that we aren’t interpreting correctly either). At this time there are events happening like Israel returning to the land, Babylon being rebuilt among many others. There are things happening today that must be in place for the Second Coming and guess what? They are here now, in this time, not in any time prior. If you would take the time from your busy schedule of bashing Dr. Hovind and the folks who support him, research End Times Prophecy and come to your own conclusions (which will be impossible unless God reveals it to you). How can you say that we are wrong if you haven’t studied the subject with your fine-tuned super intelligent mind? (Again a joke! Ha-ha.)

    I do apologize for my derisive comments to some that post here, but I want to let everyone know that I do this on purpose. I want to show that derision accomplishes nothing except putting people on opposite sides without much hope of resolution or even intelligent debate. Please everyone refrain from derisive comments and stick to the issues (myself included).

    God bless everyone that believes on his son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

  267. Samphire February 1, 2007 3:39 pm Reply

    Said this at 12:03pm:

    “America was founded on God centered Christian principles. It is not just me saying it, you should read this countries Constitution, God is mentioned all through it. ”

    Are you awright, awright33? The American Constitution makes no mention of God and mentions religion only once. Even the Oath of the President makes no mention of God.

    “Sorry atheists that’s just the way it is.”

    Apparently not – but even if it were, so what?

    “Atheism is for people with a lack of morals,”

    Possibly, but it is for me also. Are you suggesting that religion isn’t for Ted Haggard? It was my understanding that Christ came for the unGodly.

    “who are scared to think that maybe they will be held responsible for their actions someday.”

    That’s not quite logical, awight. If I think that I will be held responsible one day then, ipso facto, I already believe that there is an entity to which I would be answerable. If I don’t believe I will be held answerable then, obviously, I don’t believe in such a God. That’s just the way it is.

    “It really doesn’t matter to me if you don’t believe God is real or not because we will all know someday when we die. Except I won’t be one of those standing before God trying to explain why I didn’t believe in Him.”

    You might be standing in front of the wrong God. Plenty of other people think so.

    “That’s going to be a tough day for atheists and agnostics. Christians like Kent Hovind and I are just doing our duty to Christ, by spreading the truths found in scripture. It is up to you to accept or reject that Jesus died for your sins. If you reject it that’s your choice but at least we’ve done our part. No one is trying to force Christianity on anyone.”

    So why are you writing this?

    “All I see is a bunch of atheists getting defensive because they feel convicted by their own consciences.”

    Who is being defensive? We don’t have to be here. you know,

  268. FuManchu February 1, 2007 4:25 pm Reply

    “God made evrything in 6 days or He’s a liar. But He’s not.”

    Perhaps a more accurate way to say it would be “God made everything in six days or the Bible is untrue.”

    Fortunately, however, we know that the Bible was written by God – it says so in the Bible.
    And we know that God can never lie – it says so in the Bible.
    So the Bible must be true, because the Bible says it is. And how can we doubt such an unbiased source?

  269. Samphire February 1, 2007 4:34 pm Reply

    Hello, Endtimes,

    Are you saying that the author of Revelations, in writing about the Roman Empire after eating too much cheese late at night, got some of his prophecies wrong? How does that help you?

    When he foretells one third of the fish dying because the water turns to blood presumably we can do a scientific test to find out which fish survive in blood. If none survive then the prophecy is unlikely to come to pass because he is prophesizing that two thirds of fish survive in blood. That doesn’t sound too reasonable to me.

    Would the prophecy count if the water only turned red LIKE blood? I know that is not what the Bible says but I think that you will agree that we shouldn’t take these things too literally. We do get toxic red blooms from time to time which cause anoxic conditions thus killing fish so has this prophecy not already come to pass on many occasions? It may also have come to pass often in Roman times as the Mediterranean does have these blooms from to time. They had a very bad invasion of the stuff last year down the west coast of Italy just 20 miles from Rome.

    With respect to the unitary monetary system it will be some time yet before the endtimes because the English don’t much like joining mass movements. We wouldn’t even join the Euro so the chances of us joining a world currency are presently quite slim. Consequently, you Rapturists don’t need to worry about telling fibs on your mortgage application forms; there is still plenty of time to pay back those loans.

    What is your reasonable view of why God created galaxies so far from Earth that they cannot be seen with the naked eye? Indeed, their presence was not even known until a year or two ago. The Bible says they were created “to be signs and for seasons and for days and years”. What signs? And why do we need galaxies 3 billion light years away for seasons and days and years when we have perfectly adequate Swatches which we can see during the day and even on cloudy nights? For that matter, why weren’t Swatches prophesied? Now that would have been an impressive prophecy.

    Just asking,

    Kind regards,


  270. Sade Tennyson February 1, 2007 5:02 pm Reply

    Just a short note to say hello to Dr. Hovind, Sister Joe, Eric, Kent Jr & the rest of the family as well as CSE family.

    The joy of the Lord Jesus will remain your strength. The power in the blood of Jesus Christ will prevail no matter what. Remember to take it patiently when you suffer for doing what is good for this is pleasing to the Lord. I do remember you all frequently each day.

    How did it go with Sister Jo’s case today at the court. I trust the Lord for His divine intervention.
    I pray that the Holy Angels of God with Chariots of fire & flaming sword will be their & disconfeit all the plans of the enemy in Jesus name.

    The love & grace of the Lord be upon you all.

    Sade Tennyson – London UK.

  271. djhouk February 1, 2007 9:39 pm Reply

    awright33 wrote:

    “America was founded on God centered Christian principles. It is not just me saying it, you should read this countries Constitution, God is mentioned all through it.”

    um….have you ever bothered to read the U.S. Constitution? You will no mention of God – none. Nor of the Creator, Divine Providence or any other reference to God.

    awright33’s comment is sad, but typical, of the level of debate on these blogs. So many advocating the creationist position are so often sadly uninformed.

  272. Sade Tennyson February 2, 2007 3:50 am Reply

    Hello Dr. Kent and Sister Jo

    Peace & grace of the Lord be upon you & the family in Jesus name.
    Just to let you know brethren are still lifting you up before the Lord & the joy of the Lord Jesus will remain your strength in this trying time.
    Remember the Lord’s promise in
    Isa 43:2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

    The Lord is with you in this situation as He is faithful to His promises & He will sustain you.

    Eric, Kent Jnr & the rest of the family, stay strong in the Lord….brethren are upholding you in prayers…it is well with you all and the familt in CSE.

    Eric, the work may be enormous, just keep trusting the Lord to strengthen you to cope with the enormous task together with the current situation, I pray the Lord will bless you divine wisdom needed at such a time like this in Jesus name.
    Do let us know how Dr. Hovind is doing & how did it go with your mum? Jesus is faithful…keep strong…

    Sade Tennyson – London UK.

  273. Sade Tennyson February 2, 2007 4:02 am Reply

    Sorry Eric,

    I kind of thought of the March date for your Mum to be Feb,

    We’ll continue to uphold you and the family in prayer.

    How is it going with your Dad?

    I’ll keep posting messages to him here.

    It’s wise to pick the edifying ones & ignore the ones that are being used of the devil…don’t bother to pass such on to him….

    Also, if it’s wise for now not to post messages from Dr. Kent for now, that’s fine; we’ll keep praying all the same…Just send a short note to let us know he is carrying on in the Lord’s strength…at times its best to keep quiet as the enemy needs information to use to attack further.

    The Lord Jesus Christ will sustain you all & discomfeit all the enemies of your soul & the ministry the Lord has committed into the hands of the Hovinds in Jesus mighty name. Amen.

    Sade Tennyson – London UK.

  274. GaryMurray February 2, 2007 9:46 am Reply


    I appreciate your comments. Though not directed to you I always enjoy listening to others outlook. I apologize folks, I will warn you, I am long winded, because I like to be descriptive in my responses to the scoffers so they don’t misunderstand.

    In your statement you had mentioned that so many people such as Hovind and those alike often just ‘cherry pick’ certain aspects of evolution ‘science’, in an effort to debate and discuss only those that are easily unproven. I would tend to agree with this statement. We certainly can’t expect a creationist to charge and question all findings of evolution ‘science’, just as we don’t expect evolutionists and scoffers to charge and question all aspects of God’s Word (The Bible – KJV).
    What you fail to see is that these so-called “cherry picks” are the basic fundamentals of the evolution theory. These fundamentals are the foundation of the findings and future findings, which, there again, support the evolutionary theory. Thus, the ‘attack’ on these specifics from a creationist will continue for two reasons…
    First: They are, or support the fundamental foundation of the evolutionary theory.
    Second: They have never been proven fact.
    In the mind of an evolutionist, you accept these findings along with the considerable margin of error that accompanies these ideas, making you a believer out of evolution. This takes a bit of ‘faith’ on your part, regardless whether it is admittance from evolutionists, or not. Creationists, however, do have faith in their Bible and any type of worldly view of how the universe was created which is flawed with as large a margin of error, would never be accepted by a Creationist.

    In reference to stating 99 facts in my previous post… There have been many cases where creation logic and facts prevails over the evolution theory, yet your kind writes it off as coincidence for Creationists and an insignificant inconvenience for evolutionists. The purpose of my statement was a point you missed. I was trying to stress that although we as Creationists have, in the past and present, offered many valid arguments and proof against the evolutionary theory, none of them are ever accepted. Many times scientific data for evolution turns on itself by new findings when compared to past findings. The problem with this is once an evolutionist discovers that (hypothetical example) facts from the 1800s scientific community about hydrogen had a profound impact on the existence of an evolutionary universe. Over 100 years worth of new evolution facts and hypothesis had been developed based off of this one finding back in the 1800s. A scientist of today stumbles on proof that that this finding was false, doctored or even half-way flawed. The original founding research might be tossed aside, but 100 years of research taken from that flawed finding, still remains and is considered valid. That’s just stupid.
    Science is much like building a support beam for a bridge. A hypothesis is molded. Proof, facts and research goes into solidifying the mold (brick). Once proven to the best of the scientific community it is placed. Then another hypothesis stems from this mold and is researched, proven to the best of the scientific community and is placed on top of that brick. This continues on and on until the bridge is erected and supported by this one beam. If the very bottom brick is ever proven wrong or full of holes for even flawed slightly and begins to falter… By the laws of scientific physics, the entire structure will fall. The same should be applied to scientific research.
    As for my 99 facts, I will list those when you are able to answer facts we have already presented as arguments to the evolution theory. They seem to be working, why develop new ones?

    Samphire, you wrote:
    “Evolution and the Theory of Evolution are two completely separate things.”
    This I fully agree with, my problem is that, though they are separate, the scientific community often integrates one with the other to prove a theory. This can’t be scientific! The only type of evolution that has ever been observed is nothing new, just mutations or some type of addition or retraction of what already is. Yes, I am referring to Macro vs Micro evolution. My problem is that the scientific community (and I hate to refer to it as the scientific community because I know not all scientists research in this manner) use Micro evolution to prove that Macro evolution is sound, when actuality they are as different as black and white. More times than not many scientists use facts to support a fictional theory just because they are similar in life. Well a French fry is still just a potato, but I bet if you bit into one you couldn’t tell me which farm it came from, but the evolution theorists believe they can, just by tasting it.
    Again, Samphire, I agree that the theory of evolution and the science evolution are separate but if that be the case why are both found in textbooks and taught world wide as fact, and the creationist theory disregarded and mocked? Get the theory out; let’s stick with the facts from both sides!

    Samphire, you wrote:
    “If future observations show that the theory is insufficient to account for them then the theory will be dumped or modified.”
    Again, once proven wrong the original theory is removed, but the ‘facts’ built from that theory remain.

    Samphire, you wrote:
    “Do you believe that any rational scientist would agree to be burnt at the stake for his “faith” rather than admit his theory was wrong?”
    If the scientist thought that the rock which farted and caused the single cell organism to mesh with bacteria and become the universe wouldn’t let him evolve after death into anything and would cause him eternal torment, then yes, I fully believe the scientist would do whatever he thought his God (or rock in this event) requested from him. However, there is no comparison; you see evolution has no individual consequences for ones actions while those believing in a creator do. This is a criticism of Christianity, not a statement which pertains to this debate. Please, let us stick to the facts.

    Samphire, you wrote:
    ““If the universe is only six thousand years old, how is it I can see back in time some 3 billion years and look at snaps of how it used to be?”. Now, there is an impossible conundrum for YECs.”

    Samiphire, I believe you are oversimplifying a very complex idea that there are images of our past floating through the universe, that which we can be capture because these so called ‘snaps’ are caught in an infinite barrier of light and time. Here lies the problem… It is assumed that these snaps are of our earth, or something we can relate to, it is also an assumption that space, time, color, density, travel, travel obstacles, and the universe and a list of other know (and unknown) variants are and have always been consistent with their existence since the dawn of time. This alone directly contrasts with the idea of evolution where all things change over a long period of time. This is by no means evidence of an evolved universe; it might be evidence of a misdated science?
    If this be a proven fact of science, why haven’t we gone back to find out who killed JFK? Or where was Hoffa buried? Why haven’t we gone back to get a pic of Moses parting the Red Sea? Better yet, why can’t we get a shot of the rock farting, or the big bang exploding, or the monkey evolving?
    Tell ya what, get a picture of me when I was first born in my mothers arms on this earth back in 1975 and I will not only believe the snap shot theory, I’ll defend and support it.

    Please if I am wrong, let me know. I have no doubt that I might be misrepresented in several places, it is possible, and I am willing to accept that. I still look for refuted points about Hovinds footnotes and references. Are they all wrong because they don’t’ line up with evolution, or are they all right and no one cares to put that effort of research in?

    God bless to the Hovind family and his ministry.

    God Bless!

  275. darling February 2, 2007 10:29 am Reply

    “Has it ever occurred to you that I don’t receive any money from any outside sources”

    Indeed it had, but then your statement that you don’t accept offerings where someone expects a tax receipt in return” led me to believe that you would accept offerings if no tax receipt was expected. Forgive me.

    “I give freely of my own accord of my own proceeds where I do not sell anything.”

    This is becoming less and less like the CSE/DAL situation as we go along.

    “Instead, I freely give with the expectation of receiving nothing in return. So your assumption that I am a for-profit organization is a poor assumption on your part.”

    Whether or not you make a profit is irrelevant. If you don’t seek the privilege of 501(c) then you will be treated as a non 501(c) for taxation purposes, i.e. a for profit – religious or no.

    No profit, generally means no tax liability, which generally means no problem. Unless you have employees – and now it sounds like you don’t – again, most unlike CSE/DAL).

  276. darling February 2, 2007 10:31 am Reply

    Warocuya said this at 2:02pm:

    “What I am saying is that I am more qualified than you.”

    Except, of course, that you have no idea what my qualifications are (or are not.)

    I see you’re not disagreeing with my point that learned people disagree over whether Genesis was meant literally or figuratively.


    xchampion91 said this at 2:35pm:

    “Why do you not answer the question that was posed by endtimes. Could it be that you don’t have an answer?”

    I’ll assume you wrote this before my answer to EndTimes’ question showed up.

    “I love the way you come across, obviously superior to us Christians, and obviously that is a joke.”

    You are mistaken. I don’t claim to be superior to anybody.
    You’ll notice, however, that I only discuss the issues, and don’t make personal attacks.

    “Where do you get the idea that the 1st amendment has limitations?”

    See my post made on Jan29 at 9:39am.

    “It is interesting to think that the only religion that is really being persecuted in this country… is Christianity. Why is that?”

    I suspect that it isn’t.

  277. GaryMurray February 2, 2007 10:32 am Reply

    “Again, these errors are non-controversial parts of science. While you’re at it, you might want to look up the definition of a scientific theory. You seem to be using the colloquial meaning of theory rather than the scientific definition.”
    My apologies, you may be right, I will work on that, I was taking a page out of the evolutionists debate book ‘confuse them with macro/micro evolution.’ Didn’t work as well for me eh? ;) Just kidding, I am well aware of the differences, thanks.

    “The evidence is vast and deep which shows that the earth is old and evolution has occurred.“
    There is no evidence that shows or proves the age of the earth is old. There is supported findings that collaborate closely (but not definitively) with other sciences that could confirm mans hypothesis. There is no scientific way to assume the earth is billions of years old by 200 years of observation.

    “One must misrepresent all of astronomy, physics, geology, biology and chemistry in order to assert otherwise.”
    So what you’re saying is that an individual astronomer, and individual physicist, an individual geologist, an individual biologist and an individual chemist, prove and all agree that evolution is sound based off of comparative findings that they all obtained from one another, though flawed by marginal errors which become exempt from the evidence.
    But in order to question this mighty theory or offer any evidence contrary to its foundations, one must be a master of astrology, physics, geology, biology and chemistry? Why is this so? Why can’t the statements and research of multiple scientific creationists in each of these fields, be used as a refutable argument when their evidence is just as valid and possible as the evolutionist? Is it because the word Creationist?

    “By the way, I am a Christian who finds Hovinds apologetics both fundamentally and scripturally flawed. Furthermore, I don’t hide behind false credentials as does Hovind with his mail-order Ph.D. Now, are you able to spot the fundamental scientific flaws in those statements or not?”
    First of all, claiming to be a Christian has no bearing on the subject of Evolution vs. Creationism. It is an individual character choice and I’m not very interested in your character but your evidence. I am not staying you’re not a Christian, but that doesn’t win any points around here. We’re all sinners, and deserve Hell. Hopefully, you’re saved by the Grace of God and the shed blood of Jesus Christ. That’s another topic. ;)
    Secondly, your comment about Hovind and his credentials is a blatant attack on his character, that which isn’t very Christian like behavior, but also has no purpose in this debate. His credentials apparently come from an accredited school, the schools credentials has nothing to do with the debate. His statements, findings and references (which we’ll get to next), however, does have a place. They are sound, never been proven incorrect with any satisfactory evidence and his questions to the evolution society have gone unanswered. Leading to my final statement.
    You have asked me a question, which is a great debate tactic to avoid answering my first question to you, which has yet to be answered. Well done, but not necessary in this blog. I typically don’t respond to people when they can’t respond to me with answers to my questions. Instead they offer reasons of their opinions instead of evidence of fact and question. If you feel so strongly that Hovind’s credentials, statements, research, footnotes and references are ‘fundamentally flawed’ why can’t you give me your proof that directly contrasts with his references? All of his research and statements (with the exception of a quote from Hitler here and there) include the references of his findings. These are legitimate and often times scientific entities, articles and statements made by experts in their field. You claim he’s all wrong, can you disprove his references? If so can you please list your evidence on the contrary?
    If you have two questions you have asked I missed them, please repost and I will do my best which is nothing really. I will try and answer them and consider their validity but I highly doubt that two questions alone even if answered or proven true would support the entire idea of Evolution.

    Thanks and God Bless!

  278. jspatr2 February 2, 2007 12:31 pm Reply

    This is worse than the retirement of Michael Jordan! When you get free kent, I’m gonna come see you!


  279. EndTimes February 2, 2007 1:47 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire,

    The point that I made was quite simple. The book of Revelation of Jesus Christ is a prophetic book and not a spiritualized historical diatribe of the fall of Jerusalem and the Roman Empire as the preterists assert. Their theory of the book of Revelation being fulfilled at that time is untrue by simply searching for those fulfillments in history of the events written of from chapters 4-22 and the fall of Jerusalem. It just simply doesn’t hold water. You might be interested in a comparative historical analysis of chapters 1-3 as many authors have done showing the prophetic fulfillment of the “church age” in these chapters. I never have nor will state that the book itself is untrue which is a false implication that you have asserted, not me. You have laid at my foot allegations that I never implied or stated. The untruth of preterism is a sufficient statement in itself. I did not go into any other discussions of the prophetic fulfillments that are true since this is an evolution/creation website. Thus, I will forgo an in depth discussion of this, but I would recommend that you and others do search out which parts of this book have been fulfilled in the last two thousand years and which parts remain to be fulfilled. It is a quite interesting study and the finding of the true literalness of this book and its logical progression from the time it was written through the end of the ages is apparent. However, I doubt very much that you will be convinced of this at this time, so I will leave this issue to rest.

    Now back to a little bit of science which I thought was the topic of discussion on this blog. You next stated:

    1. What is your reasonable view of why God created galaxies so far from Earth that they cannot be seen with the naked eye? Indeed, their presence was not even known until a year or two ago. The Bible says they were created “to be signs and for seasons and for days and years”. What signs? And why do we need galaxies 3 billion light years away for seasons and days and years when we have perfectly adequate Swatches which we can see during the day and even on cloudy nights? For that matter, why weren’t Swatches prophesied? Now that would have been an impressive prophecy.

    Samphire, this is a subject that we have already once discussed in a limited manner. “What is the reasonable view of why God created galaxies so far from Earth that cannot be seen with the naked eye? . . .” First, God shows his eternal power and glory by the heavens (space, the galaxies) in these creations. (Romans 1:20) You are quite correct to point out that at the time the Bible was written, the scientific optical instruments of observation are exactly as you have stated: the naked eye. It was not until the fairly recent times that man began to understand the vast expanse of space and the incredible number os stars that we know about. How large is space and how many stars are there. Is space finite or is it infinite? Interesting questions, but even more fascinating is the comment of Jeremiah 31:37:

    “Thus saith the LORD; if heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.”

    So, where are we today in regards to this challenge by God Himself? First, Israel is back in the land exactly as prophesied in a multitude of Scriptures despite thousands of years of attempts to exterminate this people. The simple existence of the people we call the “Jews” is indeed an irrefutable evidence of the truth of the Bible. Second, you can turn to any web site dealing with the study of the stars and it is quite likely that you will find a discussion on whether we will ever be able to measure the universe and whether it is finite or infinite. Samphire, this is an exact fulfillment of this verse when the only optical scientific instruments were indeed naked eyes. Third, in your reply to this verse previously you stated that we have “measured” the earth under our feet, but that is not what the verse states. It quite clearly speaks of the lack of understanding we still have today on precisely the nature of the foundations of the earth. What is really under our feet anyway? A review of the literature once again reveals a panoply of hypothetical materialistic explanations for the foundational structures of the earth with no consensus among the many advocates just precisely as prophesied over two thousand years ago by a simple, “uneducated” prophet of God. Yes, Samphire, His Word is true.

  280. EndTimes February 2, 2007 1:53 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire,

    You next make a statement about the “signs,” which I would venture to show is quite simple to understand.: Gen 1:14 “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:” The context of signs is for seasons, and for days and , years. Looking at the definition of “signs” we read: A token; something by which another thing is shown or represented; any visible thing, any motion, appearance or event which indicates the existence or approach of something else. Thus we speak of signs of fair weather or of a storm, and of external marks which are signs of a good constitution.

    Thus in the context of this verse and those that follow, God was giving man a manner in which to tell the times and the seasons. It does not follow that there is anything else implied here.

    My dear Samphire, we are beginning to rehash old arguments. I would think that the basic details of this discussion are quite evident and now it remains for people to choose their sides. It is my hope that I have presented some issues to you for your consideration, but if not, I have appreciated debating many of these issues with you. My own family, much like yours, won’t play with me anymore when it comes to the evolution/creation debate but from the opposite perspective of yours.

    I was at one time a true blue, Ted Kennedy, Mike Dukakis, liberal, democrat which everyone else in my family still is. The fact that I am also a born again Christian that believes in the true literal interpretation of the Bible leaves my poor family in a total quandary on where they “went wrong” in raising me. It is even worse since my sister and her husband are both internationally renowned evolutionary biologists. My sister has actually been a guest on NPR discussing her research on ecological issues. If you think that you have a tough time in your family discussions, you might want to come over someday and play at my house. You would be quite at home with the rest of my family. So my dear Samphire, I do feel a sort of affinity with you and I do appreciate the opportunity to play in your backyard and throw rocks at you since my family won’t play anymore. May God bless, with kind regards, EndTimes.

  281. xchampion91 February 2, 2007 2:25 pm Reply

    Darling, you make no sense in your post in regards to the 1st amendment. It expressly says that the gov’t cannot interfere with religion. Are you blind???

  282. EndTimes February 2, 2007 2:46 pm Reply

    Dear Darling,

    You tell us that you are a Christian man so I do not know where you fail to see some very basic principles of the Christian faith. Let me give you an example.

    Two men were called by God to go forth and preach the gospel in many cities across the region. These men took for their sustenance offerings from those that received them into their homes. They became quite successful and their ministry grew and expanded. There were now many other people that also gave of their time in study, and copying their writings to send them forth and spread their message and they likewise lived by the support of others giving to the ministry. All of the men in this ministry lived by the grace of those that gave of their labours and all were directed by the two who originally started the ministry. The taxes were paid on the funds given by those that worked outside of the ministry and donated to the continuation of this work. So, do these men in the ministry owe anything to Caesar? The answer is no because they are gifts to God and not wages to the men. The gift givers have already given to Caesar what is Caesar’s and now they give unto God what is God’s. (Ezra 7:24)

    Does Caesar have the right to apportion the donations given to God for his own use? Well, before 1984, Paul and Silas could have conducted their ministry as Hovind did his in this country, but since 1984, the IRS would have arrested Paul and Silas as well. Who gave Caesar the authority to tax God? Since all authority and government comes from the Lord, God Almighty (Romans 13) would God ordain an unlawful seizure of God’s money and give it back to Caesar? The answer is no. So the issue again is by what authority does the IRS tax God? Quite bold really, but a loosing proposition in the long run since God will hold them accountable in the day of judgement. Yes, the constitution sets out areas that the government has no authority or jurisdiction, one of which is simply called the “church.” The IRS today would not by their definition recognize Paul and Silas as a church and would not by their definition thus grant them tax exempt status.

    Likewise, Paul and Silas would not agree with the IRS that all religions are equal and thus would not apply for the non-profit status to conduct their ministry. What is God’s is God’s and what is Caesar’s is Caesar’s. The poor liberals in this country don’t understand that the separation of church and state comes from the words of our Lord Himself. My dear Darling, I don’t know how to make this issue any clearer and we are again rehashing old grounds. My friends choose your sides with care.

    Most sincerely, EndTimes.

    PS, you or anyone else still have not proposed an answer to Perry Marshall’s riddle for atheists as xchampion91 correctly pointed out to you.

    1) Show me a message that does not come from a mind.

  283. There_is_no_god February 2, 2007 3:56 pm Reply

    Wow 10 years is a looooong time Kent, I hope your still around when Jesus returns to cleanse the Earth of all us godless heathens. Some advice for you over your extended vacation-

    1. Don’t drop the soap
    2. [EDITED]
    3. [EDITED]
    4. Don’t drop the soap

    Well I’m off to teach an evolution class with your tax dollars…..Oh wait, I’m sorry you don’t pay bad.

  284. dece870717 February 2, 2007 7:11 pm Reply

    djhouk said

    “um….have you ever bothered to read the U.S. Constitution? You will no mention of God – none. Nor of the Creator, Divine Providence or any other reference to God.

    awright33’s comment is sad, but typical, of the level of debate on these blogs. So many advocating the creationist position are so often sadly uninformed.”

    Have you ever bothered to read the Declaration of Independence? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.”

    The Declaration of Independece was the founding document for this country and the Creator is right in there.

  285. Renacook February 2, 2007 8:04 pm Reply

    I am praying for Dr.Kent Hovind and his whole family. I hope that for the sake of all the non believers, that the CSE ministry will continue on and become even more powerful and widespread. I have never known anyone to sit and watch Dr. Hovinds videos that haven’t walked away convinced that creation is an absolute fact and more confident in their belief in the bible.
    My husband who won’t spend a minute of his time reading the bible will sit and watch the CSE videos or debates from beginning to end…therefore Kent is ministering to people who would never otherwise give the bible a chance.
    I was so looking forward to seeing Dr. Hovind this Sept. in Anchorage Alaska at the ABT. I would gladly drive the 400 miles to hear one of his lectures. I have had my faith in God and in the bible strengthened tremendously thanks to Dr. Hovind and am forever grateful for him and his family for their tireless work and selfless devotion to the cause of winning people over to Christ.
    Rena Cook

  286. The Welders Wife February 3, 2007 12:57 am Reply

    I can vouch for what Warocuya says [Hey Bro, what a blessing your comments are!] I am working on translating Genesis chapters 1 through 11 from the Hebrew script into English. I have already done chapters one, two & three, & I just started working on chapter four this morning. I also have 2 friends who also translate from Hebrew to English, & both of them have also completed Genesis chapter one. Warocuya is right on!! Not only is he right but what’s in the Hebrew is absolutely beautiful, & it’s crystal clear & precise, & there’s far more detail about the literal 6 day Creation in Hebrew than there is in English.

    But the bottom line is, is that in order for you to understand it you have to know the Creator. Did you know that the very letters that spell ‘YAHWEH’ in Hebrew contain God’s way of salvation? There’s 4 Hebrew letters that spell YAHWEH. The first one is called a yohd.[phonically spelled for those who are not familiar with Hebrew] A yohd is a picture of a hand, & it means ‘to make or create’. In Ancient Hebrew it was drawn as a stick figure of a hand that included the section of the arm between the elbow & the hand. That’s the first letter, the ‘Y’. The next letter is called a Hey, as in “Hey you, listen up!” In Modern Hebrew it is a picture of an open window & it means ‘to reveal something’. Now check this out! In Ancient Hebrew it was a picture of a man with raised arms!! We get our capitol ‘E’ from this letter. The 2nd letter & the last letter of God’s name is this very letter. In ‘YAHWEH’ its the two ‘H’s. Now this will really blow your mind… The third letter is called ‘vav’. In Ancient Hebrew it was called ‘waw’. It’s a picture of a nail that’s bent on the end so that it forms a hook. It’s the ‘W’ in ‘YAHWEH’. In Hebrew you spell God’s NAME ‘Yohd-Hey-Waw-Hey’ which means The hand of The Creator-Raised-Secured by a nail hook-and the other hand too! Its a literal picture of Yeshua/Jesus hanging from the execution stake. It is so profound! God’s name is Beautiful beyond description. God choose that Name for Himself before He ever created the 2-Heavens & the Earth, & He announced His Name in Genesis 2:4. Where it says ‘LORD’ in English, it’s the word YAHWEH in Hebrew. Yeshua is the short form of ‘YAHWEH is my Deliverer’ [Yah-Shua]. & if you look up the word ‘YAHWEH’ it means ‘To Be’ or ‘I AM’. That’s because He is our Deliverer before He created time, & He will be our Deliverer after He does away with time.[Look up ‘alphabet’ in The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible]{The 3rd Heaven is where God dwells]

    In the Old Testament times, when ever somebody sinned, in order for them to be accepted before God, they had to bring a ‘clean’ animal to the place of worship.[We’ll use a lamb for our sacrifice]. So, they would have brought the lamb before God. Then as they stood before God, they placed their hands on the head of that lamb & confessed over that lamb their violations against God. Then they slit the lamb’s throat & all its blood drained out. That blood made a covering for that person’s violations against God.[It was a temporary thing, because an animal is not the equivalent of a person. Yeshua/Jesus is God’s Lamb for us. He was born without sin [because He was born of a virgin],& He never sinned His whole life, so when He was nailed/hooked to the execution stake/cross, God the Father placed all our sins [past, present, & future] on Him. There He shed His blood for our sins. Because He is a person & not an animal, it’s permanent [It never has to be done again]. What God requires of you is that you put your trust in what He has done. That’s it. Of course if you don’t think that you have ever done anything that is a violation against God, then you would have no reason to do that. However, babies throw fits in the middle of the night & demand that their parents get up & feed them when those parents are dog tired, hence babies are totally self centered & selfish, & therefore they are violators against God’s standards Who demands that we love our neighbor as our self. So if you were ever a baby, you need God’s Lamb!!! & that’s only the beginning…

    Yeshua/Jesus rose from the dead because He never sinned. He’s the Alpha & The Omega. He’s the Aleph-Tov of Genesis One. All things were made by Him, & without Him nothing was made that has been made.

    Did you know that in the Hebrew it says that there is water beyond the universe? Where the universe ends, the water starts. Go fathom that!

  287. BadBob February 3, 2007 10:15 am Reply

    Jude 1:17-19
    17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
    19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

  288. Leviathan February 3, 2007 11:03 am Reply

    I pity” There_is_no_god” in order to he has precisely shown
    without being ashamed the value on himself.

    I senses big sympati for the family Hovind.

  289. CreationCD February 3, 2007 1:03 pm Reply

    Good source for information on America’s true Christian heritage:

    Wallbuilder video online:


    Thankyou Dr. Hovind and CSE for covering other areas of importance in your seminars.

    I know that many other creationists have found fault with you in that you don’t “stay on topic”.
    You did me much good and opened my eyes in other areas beside creation/evolution.

  290. Timothy February 3, 2007 3:27 pm Reply

    Hello saved and unsaved people alike i would just like to say that kent hovind has been a tremendous blessing on my life, i have most of his excellent dvd seminars and debate series which to any right thinking person it is obvious that the BIBLE is G-Ds word and Jesus is the one and only Saviour of sinners The earth and all that is therein WAS Created in Six 24 hour days About 6000 Years ago And
    ANYBODY who wants to argue whether or not the bible is G-ds word WILL LOSE.

  291. Samphire February 3, 2007 4:00 pm Reply

    Hi, Endtimes & Gary,

    Thanks for long responses. I don’t have time to reply at the moment as I spent all Saturday afternoon at Twickenham watching the rugby. For you Yanks, rugby is like American football but using real men dressed in T-shirts rather than those helmeted and carbon fibred lobsters you have over your way.

    Only joking ……………………sort of.

    Lots to say so I will get back to you tomorrow. DV

    Kind regards


  292. daro2096 February 4, 2007 6:38 am Reply

    The reason why God didn’t deliver Kent Hovind out of prison is because he is not following the 10 commandments of God. You break the least of these commandments and you break all 10. God is punishing Kent Hovind for not following the 4th commandment to honor the true Sabbath of the Lord on the 7th day not the first day.

    Why would God want us to forget the one commandment that starts with the words remember the sabbath day to keep it holy?

    Because Kent Hovind hasn’t been following the law of God the Lord has refused to hear his prays.

    I hope he repents and starts to worship the Lord on the true sabbath day then God will hear and remember him and deliver him.

    There is no command in the Bible to change the day of the sabbath. It was the holy Roman Catholic Church that changed the day of the sabbath not the early fathers of the 1st and 2nd century church.

    Strangers who joined themselves to Israel are commanded to keep the sabbath. The seventh day sabbath wasn’t just for the Jews but was for everybody, infact Jesus said the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. The sabbath comes directly from the 7th day of creation in Genesis 2:1-3 as a reminder of creation. God doesn’t change, he is the same yesterday, today and forever.

    Israel in the Bible is God’s people which are believers in Jesus Christ, it isn’t some nation in the middle-east. God was finished with earthly Israel in 34AD and the gospel went out to the gentiles in 34AD, God is never returning to earthly Israel. Earthly Israel will be destroyed along with the rest of the world when Jesus returns in the clouds of heaven to take his saints home to heaven for 1000 years and at that time the wicked living will be destroyed by the brightness of Jesus’ coming.

    The Seventh-Day Adventists have the truth.

    I dare you to post this just to show you are not biased in view of favourable posts for your dad, Eric.

  293. NaD February 4, 2007 6:59 am Reply

    Are there changes on the horizon here at CSE?

    Just noticed the new message added in bold print to the bottom of all of the pages on the website:


    This is in direct contradiction to Kent’s own statement on the “About Creation Science Evangelism” page:

    “None of the materials produced by Creation Science Evangelism are copyrighted, so feel free to copy those and distribute them freely. Our web site is another facet of our ministry, provided to help spread the truth into all the world.”

    So, all and none is copyrighted… right?

    What a paradoxical quandary this creates.

    Can believers still legally distribute CSE materials? Or, is his family now planning to cash in on the poor Doctor’s legacy while he’s away for the decade and unable to continue the revenue flow from prison?

  294. Timothy February 4, 2007 1:47 pm Reply

    Hello Dr Hovind just a short note to say you totally transformed my life with your award winning seminar series G-d bless you .Praying for your protection and peace whilst in your physical prison but thank G-d
    you will never be in a spiritual prison thanks to our great G-d and Saviour Jesus Christ praying that the illeagle irs will shortly be exposed to the light of G-ds law.

  295. CreationCD February 4, 2007 5:09 pm Reply

    Samphire, I’d like to know your feelings about your fellow Englishman John Bunyan. He was guilty of disobeying a King’s order to take a license to preach. While in prison he produced one of the greatest works of Christian literature, Pilgrims Progress (have you read it?). Many felt he was justified for not taking a license, others condemned him for the harm he did to his ministry and his family.

    Of course he was preaching a belief system that you totally disagree with, but what do you think of the man? Was he a hero of the faith? or was he a fool holding on to a belief system that ruined his life, ministry and family?

    Pilgrims Progress is available as a free mp3 Audio Book from

  296. joshrjb February 4, 2007 6:43 pm Reply

    Hi Samphire,

    I hope I can help you out with one of your questions. You wondered why God would create stars that man could not see with the naked eye. While it is true that God intended the stars we can see to be used for “signs, seasons, days, and years,” it is equally true that:

    “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: For thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” Revelation 4:11


    “For by (the Lord Jesus Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisble, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.” Colossians 1:16

    Not everything in the universe is just for man’s benefit.

    I’m glad you are on here, Samphire. I just want you to know I care for you and pray for you. You have immense value to God, and I hope you realize what He did for you on the cross and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

  297. Satanica February 5, 2007 1:49 am Reply

    Hey. Update the blog..and stop just approving the posts of brownie hounds looking to cower favour with Jehovah. We await hearing more tales of Pops being akin to Job or some other biblical hero in his own mind.

  298. alzapa February 5, 2007 8:18 am Reply

    I have a question, or I am looking for comments about Pensacola Christian College (PCC) during all this. First of all I am not looking for bashing, just comments; there are stories out there about some higher-ups at PCC taking the stand against Kent Hovind. I know that we Independent Baptists can get combative, (I am not sure why). If they are true I am floored, I have 7 children and work with youth and I have always told them if they were not called into the ministry that PCC would be a good college to go to.

    If they did take the stand against Hovind I can not longer suggest their college or buy abeka books, as well let schools know not to buy abeka books.

    Basically what is being said is that the number 2 person at PCC took the stand and said Christian ministries should pay all taxes etc….. but PCC is a 501 3 c. ?????????????????

    I do not want to start a fight I am just searching for the truth. What I read I do not want to believe.

  299. GaryMurray February 5, 2007 8:47 am Reply

    Darling, you wrote:

    “I’m confused about your use of the word “observed” – specifically that you seem to be implying that direct observation is nessecary, scientifically.

    Have you ever observed an electron?
    Has anyone else?

    If not, does that mean electricity is just a theory?”

    I don’t believe you’re as confused about the word ‘observed’ as you are ‘evolution’ as it pertains to my statement. We can observe electrical currents, static electricity and even harness it to use at our leisure. We might not be able to see or observe the ‘proton’ as it were, but there gain we’ve never seen electricity, the result of a proton, evolve into a mole-rat or a sparrow either.

    The observation of an item proves that it is there and nothing more… It does not prove how it got there.

    Observation test…
    You can see a red ball in the middle of a square room with four connected walls, no windows, one door and carpet on the floor, but by that statement or even by observing the ball you can never know how the ball got to that spot. You might theorize how it got into the room… You would assume that since we know there are no windows, four connected walls and only one door it came in through the door. Although you can’t say who or what caused it to come through the door you can say that by my statement above the only way is in through the door, so that must its method of entry. Without observation this is the most logical and scientific guess and thus would be considered fact by most. However, if you were able to observe the room instead of me explaining to you what was in the room and what made up the room, you would realize that it isn’t what you see, its what you didn’t see… I never said there was a roof, so the ball could have come in through the roof and not the door.

    My point is, evolution has never been observed (with the exception of ‘micro evolution’ or better known as variations of a kind). It has been assumed because most (not all) the evidence points in the general direction of evolution, but just because it seems to be the only logical way, doesn’t make it the only way. If something can’t be proven sound and absolute, then there is another possibility as to its existance. Either all ideas of creation should be taught in schools or no method should be taught in schools. I think that both Creationists and Evolutionists have very strong arguments for their beliefs. I think that the great minds of each of these religions (and yes it is a religion, look the word up) both see strong, unprooved evidence to support each side. So neither of these should be accepted the indefinite prospect by our Government without both being taught and understood. Let’s allow the children and their parents decide how the universe was created. Each human is able to come up with their own logical conclusion by listening to all facts, they need not, government intervention to lead them the way the government would like them to go.

    God Bless,
    Gary Murray

  300. samuel February 5, 2007 9:02 am Reply

    Hi again everyone, God bless you all on this fine day!

    This is a little message to The Welders Wife:

    I found your post on Hebrew to English translations, Gods name how it relates to Jesus and Salvation in Hebrew, absolutely fascinating, I would really like to learn more about this and any other exraordinary insights you may have into our Lords written word!

    However, one thing I found a little bit strange, (please dont take this the wrong way) was your comment regarding babies throwing a tantrum in the night and comparing this to sin. I honestly dont believe or understand how God will hold these babies accountable for anything like this. From what I understand (and this is still expanding) the age of accountability, viewed in Christian, Jewish, and other religious beliefs was around the age of 12. I cannot understand how or why God would judge a babies tantrum, especially when they are simply crying or whining for their nappy changing, or because they are too hot or cold, or because they are hungry. I have 3 children and they all went through this stage (I have a 1 year old still there)and do not know any better. I can honestly say, I do not think God judges the sins of a minor untill they reach the age of accountability.

    Gods love and blessings to all of you.


  301. samuel February 5, 2007 9:46 am Reply

    Here is a little post for all of you non-believers out there. God loves you.

    Do you think you could snap out of your sarcastic, cynical, critical, negative attitude for 1 moment? (If you are not in this frame of mind, great! You might just read and understand without reading halfway and turning your nose up!) and give this some serious, unbiased, humble thought?

    No one so far (as far as we have got in time) has ever (and will ever I might add) been or be able to prove our origin and destination empirically. We ALL have to rely on some form of faith.


    What if you are right about no God, no afterlife, and when we die there is absolutely nothing after death. No repercussions for our actions, no spirit world, no good or evil. None of us really have anything to worry about (apart from the prospect of the oblivion of nothingness).


    What if we, the believers in God, believers in the afterlife are correct in our studies and belief? Are you prepared for this? I don’t think you can prepare for an eternity of nothingness, but you can prepare for an eternity of “somethingness” so to speak.

    My point is, what are all of you guys gonna do when Jesus comes back? Are you all STILL going to deny him? I desperately hope not, I honestly believe the Lord loves ALL of us, no matter what. As long as we can do the humble thing of accepting his FREE gift of salvation by praying the below prayer.

    Cmon, it doesn’t cost anything at all! (apart from sacrificing a little bit of pride) and I can personally vouch for the positive effects it has on lives, minds, bodies, souls & spirits! Thank you Jesus! Praise God for making it sooooo simple!

    Please say this little prayer below and sincerely mean it:

    Dear Lord,

    It’s me [name]; I’m praying this prayer to ask you for your free gift of salvation.
    I believe you are the Son of God, the father manifest in mortal flesh.
    I believe you lovingly died for me that day on that cross on Calvary.
    I know I am a sinner, I know I have done things wrong, against you, myself and others in life.
    Please forgive me of my sins, please help me to love you and to love others.
    Please give me your free gift of salvation & eternal life through your son Jesus Christ. Amen.

    It’s honestly THAT simple!

    If you have said this prayer, out loud or in your head, and sincerely meant it with your heart, you WILL be guaranteed a place in heaven! (Your rewards in heaven however, are a different story.)

    John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    God loves you guys, regardless. I beg you, please give him a chance, please don’t turn him away, he has so much to offer and more. We cannot even begin to comprehend what he has laid up in the next life for us. All you have to do is believe!

    Keep on believing God answers prayer,
    Keep on believing he’s still up there,
    Trust in his promises written for you,
    Keep on believing and praise your way through!

    God bless and keep you all!

    All my love and prayers,


  302. GaryMurray February 5, 2007 10:03 am Reply

    Said this at 6:38am:

    “The reason why God didn’t deliver Kent Hovind out of prison is because he is not following the 10 commandments of God. You break the least of these commandments and you break all 10. God is punishing Kent Hovind for not following the 4th commandment to honor the true Sabbath of the Lord on the 7th day not the first day.”

    In relationship to the sabbath: Here are some versus that transfers the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday… Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2; Hebrews 7:12…

    The Old Testament “Sabbath” (simply meanint 7th) was on Saturday, teh last day of teh week, to commemorate the finished work of Creation. It was celebrated one day a week by resting from our labors concerning that Creation.

    The New Testament “Sabbath” commemorates the finished work of redemption, and is celebrated by resting in the finished work of Christ on teh Cross 7 days a week – thsu trusting His WOrk, not our works for salvation. Hebrews 4:1-11, pay close attention to verses 3-4 and 8-10.

    The New Testament Sabbath was merely a shadow or symbol of what Christ would come and do just as was the sacrificial system. Proof of this statment is found below:
    The reason why God didn’t deliver Kent Hovind out of prison is because he is not following the 10 commandments of God. You break the least of these commandments and you break all 10. God is punishing Kent Hovind for not following the 4th commandment to honor the true Sabbath of the Lord on the 7th day not the first day.
    Colossians 2:16-17
    “16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

    A secondary picture of the Saturday Sabbath was that of a future Sunday day of worship. The Saturday Sabbath was primarily a day of rest, with no regular religious services commanded under the Law.

    The Sunday Lord’s Day, however, is primarily a day of worship, with rest as only its secondary meaning. Thus Sunday is not actually the Christian ‘Sabbath’ (meaning “seventh” day) as is commonly believed. It is rather ad ay of worship and celebration of the resurrection, which (without any shadow of a doubt) occured on the first day of teh week, Sunday.
    Mark 16:9
    9 “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”

    Note a few other major events of the New Testament which occured on the first day of teh week.
    The Resurrection of Christ (Mark 16:9; Matthew 28:1-6; Luke 24:1-6; John 20:1)
    The first Resurrection appeareances: (Mark 16:10-14; Matthew 28:8-10; Luke 24:13-40; John 20:11-19-23)
    Jesus’ prophecy of the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)
    The appearance to Thomas (John 20:26-29)
    *Note: the phrase “after eight days” was the Jewish way of stating from Sunday to Sunday as they would include both Sundays in the count.
    The five givings of teh Great Commission (John 20:21; Mark 16:9-15; Matthew 28:18-20; Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:8)
    The Ascension (Acts 1)
    The Day of Pentecost (Acts 2)
    The Final Revelation of Scripture (Rev 1:10)
    Christian Worship, Preaching and the Lord’s Supper (Acts 20:6-7)
    Christian Offerings and Collections (1 Corinthians 16:1-2)

    Finally, notice the following evidences that we are NOT to keep the Old Testament Saturday Sabbath today:

    The command to keep teh Sabbath is NEVER repeated in the New Testament. In fact, it is the ONLY one of teh Ten Commandments which is NOT repeated in the New Testament.

    Sabbath breaking is never included on any New Testament list of sins.

    The Sabbath was given exclusively to the Jews as a sign of God’s covenant relationship with them and was never given to the Gentiles (Exodus 31:12-16; Nehemiah 9:13-14)

    The Sabbath was part of the Old Testament Law and we are no longer under the law (But Praise God under Grace!) (Galatians 3:23-25; Colossians 2:14)

    Contrary to popular opinion, the command to keep teh Sabbath was not given until Moses received the Law at Mt. Sinai

    Genesis states that God rested on the seventh day, but contains no command that man should do so.
    There is no Biblical record that any human kept the Sabbath until Moses received the Law.
    In fact, the Genesis account of God resting on the seventh day was not even written until Moses received the Law at Mt Sinai

    There are many clear New Testament Passages stating that we are not to keep teh Saturday Sabbath today. (Colossians 2:14, 16-17; Galatians 4:9-11; Romans 14:4-6; Acts 20:6-7; 1 Corinthians 16:1-2)
    Note: Paul warns about keeping the Sabbath to those still attempting to keep Old Testament Law. Even today, Sabbatarian groups still believe that they are under the Law, such as the Seventh Day Adventists.

    Church history verifies that the Early Church did worship on Sunday… Although, Sabbatarians try to prove (as daro2096 has)that the church did not worship on Sundays until Catholic Councils changed the day of worship in AD 364, all of these and other early Christian writers and writings clearly and strongly declare that the early Christians worshiped on Sundays, NOT Saturdays.
    Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110)
    Justin Martyr (AD 100-165)
    The Epistle of Barnabas (AD 120-150)
    Irenaeus (AD 178)
    The Didache (teaching) of the Apostles (AD 70-75)
    The Epistle of Pliny (AD 112)
    Clement of Alexandria (AD 194)

    Just quickly and finally.. The two False Sabbatarian Arguments….

    First: Jesus kept the sabbath and therefore so should we…
    False: Jesus kept all of teh Old Testament Law (of which the Sabbath was a part) because He lived before His death and resurrection fulfilled and annuled the Law. It is HE WHO set us free from the Law! (Romans 10:4; Hebrews 7:18; 8:13)

    Second: Paul kept the Sabbath and so should we.
    False: Paul went to the Jewish Synagogues on Saturday to preach to the Jews and worshipped with Christians on Sundays.

    Daro2096… You have been misled. The Bible is very clear about the Law, what it is, who annuled it and what we should be doing today. We live by grace, not by Law. To live by Law is to assume that obeying Law is the only way to salvation which is impossible because then it would be by works of man that you receive salvation and we know what God says about that…
    Ephesians 2:8-9
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    There’s that word ‘grace’ again. “We are no longer under the Law but under Grace”.
    I’m sure you were told to worship the Sabbath, but you were just misled. Please pick up your Bible, the Bible is meant to be taken literally, not hypothetically or even symbolic. It isn’t meant for just the spiritual elite to decipher. Read it for yourself, take in account the verses above and proof above. Then make your own decision as to what the Sabbath is.

    Secondly, you are in no position to say why Hovind is guilty and why God did these things. Perhaps we’ll all know in the By and By, but until that time you nor I know why God does what he does…
    Isaiah 55:8
    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD”

    Finally, despite popular belief, God never leaves his children. He has never left Israel, never will.
    Hebrews 13:5
    “…for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” -KJV
    Those are his children, as are the gentiles, but Israel was his children first. God loves all as his own individual child, there is no favoritism with God, as such would be hypocritical, that which I know my God isn’t.

    “The Seventh-Day Adventists have the truth. ”
    Well, no. You have a heretical version of religion that was passed down and changed over centuries to fit man’s symbolic translation of scripture. When I preach, I always challenge my listeners to read all scripture I give them to make sure my message isn’t in contrast with the scripture. I don’t do this because I don’t trust in the message God gave me to preach, it is because I don’t trust the fleshly man inside who is daily, battling with my spiritual side to cause me to damage my testimony. It is this type of weakness that has caused many churches to spawn into other religions and factions. Just stick with the Bible, straight forward and take it literal as the Fundamental Independent Baptist do. Just believe word for word, God’s word, not a priest, or a ministers translation of God’s Word. Look it up yourself to make sure what you’re taught is in alignment with what you should be reading. :)

    God Bless!
    Gary Murray

  303. awright33 February 5, 2007 10:46 am Reply

    Oh, Samphire is from Europe, that figures. All of his posts make sense now. Europe is one of the most Godless areas in the world and it shows.

  304. JR Turner February 5, 2007 11:04 am Reply

    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “The laws of nature are the laws of God, whose authority can be superseded by no power on earth. A legislature must not obstruct our obedience to him from whose punishments they cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his (God’s) laws, we are in conscience bound to disobey.” 1772, Robin v. Hardaway, 1 Jefferson 109.
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “To say that one may not defend his own property is usurpation of power by legislature. ” O’Connell v. Judnich (1925), 71 C.A.386, 235 P. 664.
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “History is clear that the first ten amendments to the Constitution were adopted to secure certain common law rights of the people, against invasion by the Federal Government.” Bell v. Hood, 71 F.Supp., 813, 816 (1947) U.S.D.C.
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “The rights of the individual are not derived from governmental agencies, either municipal, state, or federal, or even from the Constitution. They exist inherently in every man, by endowment of the Creator, and are merely reaffirmed in the Constitution, and restricted only to the extent that they have been voluntarily surrendered by the citizenship to the agencies of government. The people’s rights are not derived from the government, but the government’s authority comes from the people. The Constitution but states again these rights already existing, and when legislative encroachment by the nation, state, or municipality invade these original and permanent rights, it is the duty of the courts to so declare, and to afford the necessary relief.” City of Dallas, et al. v. Mitchell, 245 S. W. 944, 945-46 (1922).
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “Constitution of this state declares, among inalienable rights of each citizen, that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property. This is one of primary objects of government, is guaranteed by constitution, and cannot be impaired by legislation.” Billings v. Hall (1857), 7 C. 1.
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “Right of protecting property, declared inalienable by constitution, is not mere right to protect it by individual force, but right to protect it by law of land, and force of body politic.” Billings v. Hall (1857), 7 C. 1.
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    “It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.” – Robert H. Jackson (1892-1954), U.S. Judge, in American Communications Association v. Douds, May 1950
    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    American Jury Institute

  305. Sade Tennyson February 5, 2007 11:04 am Reply

    Hello Dr Hovind, Sister Jo, Eric, Kent (Jnr) & the rest of the family.
    Precious greetings to you all in Jesus name.
    It is a great thing to serve the Lord & I thank the Lord for the suffering of this present time that you’re going through cannot be compared to the glory that shall be revealed unto you later.
    Daniel was tried, Sharack & the friends were tried, the Lord sustained them, the Lord our God is mighty & He will sustain you in Jesus name.
    Be refreshed with
    Psalms 25:1-5
    1 ¶ A Psalm of David. Unto thee, O LORD, do I lift up my soul.
    2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.
    3 Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.
    4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
    5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

    Brother Kent & sister Jo, Remember the song below & be encouraged / strengthened as you sing. Many of our fellow brethren are suffering for their faith, you are not alone….Jesus is with you…It is well with you & the family in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Be not dismayed whate’er betide,
    God will take care of you;
    Beneath His wings of love abide,
    God will take care of you.


    God will take care of you,
    Through every day, over all the way;
    He will take care of you,
    God will take care of you.

    Through days of toil when heart doth fail,
    God will take care of you;
    When dangers fierce your path assail,
    God will take care of you.


    All you may need He will provide,
    God will take care of you;
    Nothing you ask will be denied,
    God will take care of you.


    No matter what may be the test,
    God will take care of you;
    Lean, weary one, upon His breast,
    God will take care of you.

    We are remembering you in prayers & we’ll continue to uphold you in prayers. We are confident that the devil & all His cohorts shall be put to shame & they will be in everlasting confussion when the Lord our God fights His battle.

    The Lord your God will fight for you & you shall hold your peace. The battle belongs to the Lord….He will confound as many as have gathered together against you in Jesus name. For it is written: Isa 41:11-13
    11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
    12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
    13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

    I join the Psalmist to pray this for Dr Hovind & Sister Jo:

    Psalm 35

    1 Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
    2 Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
    3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
    4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
    5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.

    The joy of the Lord Jesus will remain your strength.

    Eric, be strong in the Lord & in the power of His might. Put on the whole amour of God as you carry on with this enourmous task. The Lord Jesus Christ will strengthen you & uphold you & the rest of the family & brethren at CSE with His right hand of fighteousness in Jesus mighty name.

    Remember,Ps 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

    Sade Tennyson. London UK.

  306. awright33 February 5, 2007 12:11 pm Reply

    Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint.

    Dr. Tim Ball, Chairman of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project

  307. zaculeh February 5, 2007 10:42 pm Reply

    daro, I was a Seventh Day Adventist but once I realised SDA were based on the old covenant I left. The Sabbath is not commanded to be kept any longer, Jesus fulfilled the sabbath =].

    See Colossians 2:14-2:16 & Romans 14:5

  308. samuel February 6, 2007 6:25 am Reply

    Hello and God bless all of you on this beautiful day!

    awright33: Your comment about Samphire being from Europe and somehow linking this to Godlessness is a bit short sighted. Whilst I agree, Samphires comments have been quite negative and clearly present his belief system and attitude, I don’t think it’s our place to criticize and condemn him/her for this as we don’t know their situation past or present. Let God be the Judge.

    I think its pretty plain to see that Godlessness is running rampant throughout ALL of the world at the moment. When you start pointing the finger at other countries and especially continents, branding them all Godless, you have really got to look at your own attitude and outlook.

    I am from England, and have lived here most of my life. I have been brought up with a good foundation on the rock – the Word of God. I did depart from my faith briefly in my teens, but as the prodigal son, I returned to my Lord and Saviour! Hallelujah! Thank you Jesus! Praise God!

    The Lords children are scattered all over this planet, and there even more sheep waiting to be lead to the Lord. Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    The Lord said “ALL the world” and “to every creature” This means the Godly and the Ungodly. The “Godless” countries and the “Godly” countries (If there even is such a thing any more).

    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Our job as disciples of Jesus, our duty as a soldier of the army of Christ is to get his message across to ALL people of ALL nations. We are not going to deliver this message effectively with negativity, regardless what we may think personally.

    1 John 4:4-11 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

    ANYONE can accept the Lord, ANYONE can claim Gods free gift of salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ. He already went through the hard part. Those who have ears for the truth will hear sooner, hopefully rather then later, lets keep the positive spirit of our Lord alive and not dwell on negativity.

    God bless and keep you all in prayer,


  309. The Welders Wife February 6, 2007 10:31 am Reply

    Hey Sampfire,
    what’s this about real men playing Rugby? No way!! You’re too funny!! My theory about Rugby is that it got started because a bunch of guys got board with cricket, so they started beating each other up, & to make it legal, they made a game out of it & gave it a name!!!!!!!!
    & I have a slightly different definition about what constitutes a real man… A real man is a warrior for his wife & for his family & for his faith. The warrior thing about Rugby or Football or Hockey just doesn’t cut it…and I don’t know about any warrior type guys playing cricket! [But I used to like to play cricket! It was fun!!]

    Got to go! Hope you have a fun day!

    The Welder’s Wife

  310. darling February 6, 2007 12:16 pm Reply

    NaD said this at 6:59am, Feb4:

    “So, all and none is copyrighted… right?”

    CSE materials have always been copywritten. Protection is granted automatically – one doesn’t have to apply for it.

    When CSE says “feel free to copy those and distribute them freely” that means they’re not going to enforce any of their rights.

    In that respect the disclaimer – if indeed it is new – changes nothing. (If CSE intends to reclaim some of those rights, they need to speak with a lawyer.)


    Alzapa said this at 8:18am, Feb5:

    Basically what is being said is that the number 2 person at PCC took the stand and said Christian ministries should pay all taxes etc….. but PCC is a 501 3 c. ?????????????????

    My understanding is that PCC is a 501(c) and CSE isn’t, but that’s irrelevant. In both cases employers must withhold certain taxes from their employees’ paycheck. I assume PCC does so, but CSE didn’t. (CSE’s argument that there was no employer/employee relationship didn’t hold up in court.)

    When a Christian is breaking the law, they need to be held accountable. It sounds like that’s exactly what PCC did – after giving Mr. Hovind fair warning.


    GaryMurray said this at 8:47am, Feb5″

    “We might not be able to see or observe the ‘proton’ as it were… The observation of an item proves that it is there and nothing more…”

    If you’ve never observed protons (or electrons), how do you know they are there?

    My point is, evolution has never been observed…

    And my point is that electrons have never been observed. So what?

    Clearly, observation is not necessary for something to be scientific. We see the effects of electrons – we experimented, did some tests, tried out a few ideas, and eventually that’s what led us to deduce the existence of electrons. Exactly the same thing happened with evolution.


    JR Turner copied and pasted more out-of-context spam at 11:04am, Feb5:


    I’m still waiting for the full context of that Grace Commission quote.

  311. samuel February 7, 2007 3:42 am Reply

    Good day to you all on this wonderful morning!

    Darling: You’ve hit the nail right on the head here.

    “”Darling”” said this about “GaryMurray” saying this at 8:47am, Feb5″

    “We might not be able to see or observe the ‘proton’ as it were… The observation of an item proves that it is there and nothing more…”

    “”If you’ve never observed protons (or electrons), how do you know they are there?

    My point is, evolution has never been observed…

    And my point is that electrons have never been observed. So what?

    Clearly, observation is not necessary for something to be scientific. We see the effects of electrons – we experimented, did some tests, tried out a few ideas, and eventually that’s what led us to deduce the existence of electrons. Exactly the same thing happened with evolution.””

    So Darling has been led to deduce (believe) our origins were founded by evolution, based on his opinion of the evidence, and others opinions of the evidence. This is faith because you believe in something you cannot see.

    I could say exactly the same thing. I can’t see God with my eyes, God is not observable. But, we see the effects of God our almighty creator in ours and others lives! We’ve done the necessary experimentation, ran plenty of tests, tried out a few new ideas, and this is what has led us to believe there is a God, a creator, sustaining the universe, not “random organised chaos”.

    Again we see so clearly the faith needed to believe in anything unobservable, the thing is, our faith is going to take us to heaven, the Lord has promised this in his word that was written for all of us. Where is your faith taking you?

    God bless and keep you all in praise and prayer.


  312. Weilke February 7, 2007 4:23 am Reply

    Here Belgium, a tiny country in Europe at the North Sea. First of all: shalom to you! (and sorry for our way of expressing in english, it’s not perfect). Our family and also christian friends around us are following your case in prayer, we were shocked. Also we recognise the forces of darkness behind this all and still: God is in control. We pray that your names will be cleansed, that you all will be without any blame in the near future.
    I am an engineer as for my former studies, a housewife and parttime teacher of religion for children (up till the age of 14)and still studying myself. Your DVD’s on creation are such a blessing for us and I can share this with my pupils and others
    In Belgium they have permitted that children can choose what they follow at school: catholic, protestant, islam, jewish etc religon. As there are only 1% protestants I have a very very little amount of pupils:…1 pupil at each school that I visit and I have to drive quite far to go to every school. But I realise that God is looking for people to train the young ones.
    God bless you.

  313. Fundy February 7, 2007 5:25 am Reply

    Oh man, I was so choked when I heard the news.

    I went to hear Kent in 2003 when he came over to Wales and he’s such an amazing and Godly man. I even spoke with a number of friends about getting him over here again as a number of people from different churches in the area were interested in getting him to speak.

    Now I hear he’s in prison, and for 10 years!!!! Yes, it is a new mission field for Kent, and I know he will be used by God, but I would love him to get back out preaching around the world.

    I’ll be praying for him, and that T-shirt idea mentioned in one of the above posts is a brilliant idea!


  314. darling February 7, 2007 8:03 am Reply

    samuel said this at 3:42am, Feb7:

    “So Darling has been led to deduce (believe) our origins were founded by evolution, based on his opinion of the evidence, and others opinions of the evidence.”

    I don’t have a problem with the idea that the first spark of life originated from a supernatural source, but that is abiogenesis – which doesn’t impact the concept of evolution.

    “This is faith because you believe in something you cannot see.”

    Have you ever seen an electron?
    If not, does that mean we only have faith they exist?
    If so, you’re equivocating.

  315. Samphire February 7, 2007 9:24 am Reply

    I can’t agree with you, joshrjb

    I think it most unlikely that God would make a few thousand million galaxies just for his own pleasure. He had a lot of work to do on that first week and, as far as we know, he is still relaxing. Creation in this Universe was a once-for-all experience and therefore the reason for the galaxies existence must be as set out in Genesis.

    However, I write as though both Genesis accounts were factual which, of course, I do not believe but thank you for your kind words anyway.


  316. GORGE February 7, 2007 11:27 am Reply

    Hi Samphire,
    You need to get born again lad,dont keep hardening your heart.
    You say you read revalation did you know it fits in with the Jewish tnck (old testiment) The book of Ezikel for example.
    Did you go to Ios while in argeon?

  317. Samphire February 7, 2007 6:04 pm Reply

    Hi, Gorge

    No, I didn’t get to Ios as we were running out of time but we did sail between Naxos and Ios on the way to Paros. I got within 5 miles of Ios which is also as close as I have ever been to India – but measured vertically.

    Thanks for the advice but it is difficult to believe something which is clearly myth and invention and remain true to oneself. There is an awful lot of stuff in the world which you don’t believe either, Gorge.

    Finally, are you suggesting that St.John had not read Ezekiel before he wrote Revelations? If the answer is no then it is unsurprising that the peg fitted the hole.

    Eusebius, who was employed by Constantine (the Emperor who established Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire) and wrote an obsequious biography of that evil man, regarded the authenticity of Revelations to be entirely spurious.

  318. The Welders Wife February 8, 2007 5:33 am Reply

    Hi Samuel!
    Sorry about taking so long to answer you but I thought it wise to confer with a certain welder first.
    In answer to your question, it’s my understanding that the age of accountability & the fact that all human beings have a sin nature are two different subjects. Let me give you my background first, because then it will help you understand where I am coming from…
    I became a Believer when I was 12 in Papua New Guinea. A year & a half later I had to go to boarding school down in Queensland, Australia for my Secondary Education [High School]. The school I attended had been founded by a church denomination that had bought into the theory of Evolution & had thrown out the first eleven chapters of the book of Genesis. Because of that they didn’t believe that man had a sin nature, & consequently, they also threw out the Gospel. One day I asked my Ancient History teacher [who was also the School Chaplain & a deacon in the church] about Adam & Eve. His answer was that it was an old wives tale that people used to use, but now we didn’t need it because of the theory of Evolution. I was devastated! I didn’t want to believe him, but at the time, I was on my own, so I stuffed it for a while. The following year my parents moved down to Australia & I left boarding school & got involved with some Christians who put their trust in the absolute authority of the word of God. Not long afterwards the Lord saw to it that two tracts came across my path. One of them was titled ‘Have You Been Brain Washed?’ written by Dwain Gish, Ph.D. & the other one was ‘Big Daddy’ by Jack Chick. I thank God for those two tracts! After reading them, I mentally threw out everything I had ever learned in the sciences from man’s perspective, & began again from scratch to learn the sciences from God’s perspective [I had majored in the sciences all through my Secondary Education.]. I now knew that I could trust God that what He says is completely & absolutely true. The scriptures are His words to us, from Genesis chapter one, verse one to Revelation chapter twenty two, and verse twenty one.
    With that said, I’ll start with the subject of a sin nature. When Adam disobeyed God & ate the forbidden fruit, he acquired a sin nature that was passed on to every one of his descendants. Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned & fall short of the glory of God. Psalm 14:1-3 & 53:1-4 & Romans 3:9-12 says that all have sinned. Isaiah 53:6 says that all we like sheep have gone astray & each of us has turned to his own way, but the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. Did Jesus die for babies too? Of course He did because they are born with sin natures passed on from generation to generation through the father’s seed. Jesus on the other hand didn’t come from an earthly father’s seed, so He didn’t receive a sin nature like the rest of us. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit instead & born of a virgin. 2 Cor 5:21 says ‘For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    Now for the second subject: Does a baby understand his or her own actions? Of course not! So what does the scriptures say about babies dying? When King David’s baby son died, he said “I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” So where are King David & his baby son at this present time? Both of them are under God’s grace up in Heaven. As far as I know ‘the age of accountability’ is not mentioned in scriptures. What is said is that there are those who don’t know their left hand from their right [Jonah 4:11] & God considers people to be children until they reach the age of twenty years old [See Numbers chapter 14], & they weren’t to be listed for the military until they had reached the age of 20 [See Numbers 26: 1-2]. In Leviticus 27 the LORD makes a distinction between children ages ‘new born baby to five years old’ & ‘five years old to twenty years old’. Anything else about ‘an age of accountability’ is outside of scripture, & it was taught either by Rabbis or Church Fathers, both of which may or may not be credible. If you are aware of somewhere else in scripture where this is mentioned, please let me know. The word for ‘son’ or ‘sons’ is mentioned over 4500 times in Scripture; Maybe there’s something there that I’m not aware of.
    God is extremely concerned about what children are taught. [See Deuteronomy 6:6-9]. Teaching children God’s words & ways is a parental responsibility.

    Hi Warocuya!
    Thank you for that wonderful explanation about what was written above Yeshua’s execution stake. I looked it up in all the Gospels. Matthew, Mark & Luke call it an inscription, but John calls it a Title. I shared it with my friends here too. We all appreciate the insight because we’ve never understood before why the chief priests wanted Pilate to change the wording.

  319. Samphire February 8, 2007 12:46 pm Reply

    Hi, Welder’s wife

    You said “Jesus on the other hand didn’t come from an earthly father’s seed, so He didn’t receive a sin nature like the rest of us.”

    So why are the two genealogies of Matthew 1 and Luke 3 given? And why do they differ in an infallible book?

    Also, what Warocuya wrote is nonsense. He is a heretic and should be burned – but not for too long. Each of the four Gospels has different but infallible wording but they all agree that the words ‘King of the Jews” were in the title. The reason that the chief priests allegedly wanted the wording revised is given in John 19:21.

    Kind regards


     [EDITOR’S NOTE:  A common question.  Matthew traced through the legal (step-)Father, of Joseph, while Luke recorded Jesus’ lineage through his Mother, Mary.  Anytime one finds an apparent contradiction in Scripture it always means that there is a deeper truth or that the two “versions” add to each other.  The skeptics keep contesting and eventually dying (while deceiving many, tragically) but the Bible continues to stand.  Here is additional info:  (ed. note by P.A.) ]

  320. bachrock February 8, 2007 11:53 pm Reply


    I really don’t want to come off as a mean person, but Kent Hovind lies to people.


  321. GORGE February 9, 2007 12:41 pm Reply

    Hi samphire
    No I was suggesting The the aposol John had not read ezikiel,because an elder must be able to rightly divide the word of truth,and that amoungst the holy Spirits equipeing takes alot of bible study.I was just pointing out how Revelations was typical in its style and visions to the Jewish old testiment.You said he got his influence from greek writing of the day.Not that any of it matters to you I guess to you,but its nice to be correct on things.Why do you take influence from a 4th centuary veiw,and not that of a well documented selfproveing book called the bible?

  322. GORGE February 9, 2007 7:40 pm Reply

    Welders Wife,
    Thankyou for your bit on the age of accountabilty.I feel you hit what scripture says about the issue bang on,and have rightly divided the word of truth.I never thought of king david and his son,it certainly adds to it which is a blessing.
    As you have requested,I have wrote another scripture for you to look at on the issue – Isiaih 7v16

  323. CMarychurch February 10, 2007 6:55 am Reply

    The may be no point in leaving a comment in a 380 post queue but here goes.


    I do apologise but I have no recollection of who you are or what we discussed. I’m very puzzled how I could have could have “changed the rules of engagement” since I rarely use any rules of engagement.

    “After Hovind destroyed you on his “Answering the critics”” I personally transcribed the entire three hours and cross-referenced it into the website. An interesting theme of Hovind’s response was how he avoided the science sections and occasionally argued against things I didn’t claim. People who are interested can read everything on the website http:\\ under “Kent and Eric Respond”


    One of the many reasons Hovind’s “magnetic ice” idea fails is because the region of space around the Earth is not cold enough to produce the Mysener Effect. The ice is either boiled by the sun or warmed by infrared radiation on the darkside of the Earth. Add into this, the Mysener Effect (should it happen) would cause the ice to accumulate around the equator not the poles as suggested by Hovind.

    Diamagnetism also doesn’t work because you need some way of making the Earth’s magnetic field more than 300,000 times stronger. If ice in space could be pushed around by the magnetic field imagine what would happen to water on Earth.

    Hovind’s theory is so internally flawed there is no hope it could be any reflection of reality. It is this type of comedic accumulation of errors which makes (or should that be ‘made’?) commenting on the claims of Kent Hovind so entertaining (as far as hobbies go).

  324. Samphire February 10, 2007 6:14 pm Reply

    Hi Gorge

    I find your writing difficult to understand so fail to see your point; sorry.

    Contrary to what you write I don’t take “influence from a 4th C. view” (I would have been slaughtered as a heretic) but from a modern view of what life was like in the first four hundred years of the first millenium. From personal experience, I don’t think most Christians have any idea of or the slightest interest in how the New Testament came to be fabricated. If they did, they would be shocked.

  325. The Welders Wife February 10, 2007 11:35 pm Reply

    Hi again Samphire,
    Paul Abrahamson gave a really good answer for the 2 different genealogies.Its the same answer I would have given. I also have some more to go with it.

    God is the Master Teacher of teachers, & He designed the human brain. Until just recently I was a Head Mistress [School Principal] & a teacher. [I quit becaused we moved to another state.] Over here teachers are aware of different learding styles based on from what part of the brain the student operates from. The subject is very complex & there’s a lot to it, but I’ll explain it as simple as possible. Picture the brain divided into 4 sections. The 2 sections on one side could be labled as ‘middle left-brained'[concrete-sequential’ or ‘pratical learner’] & ‘far left-brained'[‘Abstract-Sequential’ or ‘Analytic Learner’]. The sections on the other side could be labled ‘middle right-brained'[‘Abstract-Random/Simultanoeus’ or ‘Interactive Learner’] & ‘far right-brained'[‘Concrete-Random/Simultaneous’ or ‘Experiential Learner’].

    A far left brain student is somebody who likes the academics [Math & Science in particular], & likes everything neat & orderly, & all the desks in rows & the teacher up front of the class room, & the room to be quiet with nobody talking but the teacher. The Gospel of Mathew keys in on this particular learning style.

    A far right brained student would be just the opposite. A far right brained student is the non-stop talker who is always out of his seat, & he prefers the desks in random order & the teacher to be his buddy, & his favorite subjects generally are drama, art, physical education & music…He learns totally different than the far left brain student. He likes non stop action. The Gospel of Mark was written to reach him.

    The middle left brained student prefers to view his teacher like a parent. The subjects he’s really good at are ‘History’ & ‘Social Sciences’. He wants exact directions, & he is very practical minded. The Gospel of John was written to reach him.

    The middle right brained learner likes to brain storm with others. He prefers the desks to be arranged so that they facilitate communication [the desks arranged in a circle]. He loves ‘volumes of words’. He likes the whole language experience from books & movies & the radio. The Gospel of Luke reaches his particular learning style.

    There’s a whole lot more to be said on the subject & you can research it out for your self. Gary Smalley has a book about it & so does Tim LaHay. Both are excellent.I’m sure that there’s volumes & volumes of material on the web about the subject. The point is, is that God saw to it that everybody could understand the Gospel.

    I know God personally. You can’t convince me that He doesn’t exist because I know Him as a real Person. I’ve heard His voice, I’ve felt His presence, He’s answered my personal prayers over & over again, & He explains His word to me so that I can understand what He is talking about. You on the other hand don’t know Him. If you did, you wouldn’t be debating the rest of us. You have to have God’s Holy Spirit first, before you can understand the things He says. You can ask God anything you want. There’s nothing too hard for Him to answer. If you decide to talk to Him, you better have the right attitude & not be disrespectful; but you seem to be a very polite person, so I think you’d do just fine.

    You can’t understand what Warocuya is saying because you don’t have God’s Holy Spirit dwelling in you.
    What Warocuya said was awesome, & we would love to hear more of his insights into the scriptures.


    The Welder’s Wife.

  326. Samphire February 11, 2007 6:37 pm Reply

    Hi, Welder’s Wife,

    It’s nice to hear back from you. I didn’t respond to Paul’s comments because, nice chap though he is, his response was just typical traditional contentious Christian apologetics and is of no concern to me.

    However, the reason I raised the subject in the first place is because this website is dedicated to biblical literalism and Luke does not state literally what Paul’s article says it does.

    With respect to the alleged legal lineage of Matthew, if I, like Madonna, pop over to Africa and legally adopt an indigenous black baby, he is no more of my grandfather’s white lineage than he is a Welshman (a sub-species of the Uber-species Homo Britannicus). :-) (Wales didn’t do too well against Scotland yesterday in the rugby, by the way)

    So much for Matthew. As for Luke, my copy of the KJV distinctly says (Luke 3:23) that Joseph was the son of Heli. Consequently, unless Joseph married his sister, the genealogies are not what they seem.

    You cannot have it both ways. If you are a literalist either the Bible is literally true or it is not. I use the KH literality test on the two genealogies and find them wanting. It seems that if I do believe in the literal word of Matthew and Luke the logical conclusion is that Joseph had two fathers. Well, it doesn’t worry me if he did – I am just pointing out the inconsistency in the YECs’ argument.

    I enjoyed your lecture on the brain; thanks, it was very interesting. You can probably tell that I had my entire right hemisphere removed at an early age. As for Warocuya’s tale, I just relied on what the KJV says rather than believe somebody who makes it up as they go along because it makes a nice story. If we all followed Waro’s path then we would never get your desks back into straight lines.

    You say that you know God personally. You infer that I might try to tell you that God does not exist. Why would I? How could I possibly know or prove that something does not exist? However, I doubt that your statement that you know God personally has any real meaning – in a logical sense. To say that you have some image in your mind of what you believe God to be and with which you feel able to talk to – “Left-Brain to Right-Brain, come on back, ol’buddy etc” – is entirely feasible but you are not conversing backwards and forwards with the alleged Creation-Meister; Joan of Arc tried it and came to an illuminating conclusion. It simply is not possible. How do I know? Three planks to my argument: firstly, God is too big a concept for anybody to even guess at. Secondly, if you can converse backwards and forwards with God then you don’t need faith and that is anti-biblical. Thirdly, if you can multiplex with God using your human brain then you have invented a God Detector – a scientific piece of kit which you should be able to patent and make lots of money to give to the poor IRS. It should therefore be possible to set up a bio-engineered telephone hotline to God. You won’t need to have faith – just dial, ummm – anybody got the number? But there is no evidence that such a device is possible. Consequently, I suggest that what you have is a deep and transcendental relationship with yourself which you choose to call God.

    My sister had a very real friend for many years and who I grew up with. I never met the friend because my sister would only talk to her when she was alone in her bedroom but I knew she existed because I could hear the one-way conversation droning on and on for hours on end. Remarkably, they both left home on the same day. My sister is definitely Right-Brained but completely sane (relatively speaking :-) )

    Welder’s wife, I have one question for you. If you had left your car in the supermarket car-park but had forgotten where and a guy with a left-hand brain told you he had seen it in space C454 following which two 20 year old right-brained fantasists dressed in identical shiny grey suits came up and told you that they had seen a couple of angels drive it up into the clouds would you walk straight home or first check space C454? I have written my prophecy of your answer on a piece of paper and sealed it in a brown envelope.

    Please give my kind regards to the Welder and urge him that when he is working, as a matter of Health and Safety, to keep in mind the practical teachings of 1 Cor 13:12. :-)

    Kind regards,


    P.S. My wife wants us to go to a wedding in some God-forsaken place called Ohio this summer – have you heard of it? Personally, I’m not too keen. Is it safe and will I be able to get a decent cup of tea? Have the Irish immigrants come to a peaceful accommodation with the Shawnee? Is it worth the time and effort in trying to get past those extraordinarily friendly guys in US Customs at JFK? Will the pastor at the ceremony be packing heat? Should we bring our own heat for self-defence? All advice gratefully received.

  327. GORGE February 11, 2007 7:08 pm Reply

    Hi samphire,

    Sorry you could not understand.Maybe the word ‘documentation’ instead of the word ‘veiw’ would of made more sence to you.Other than that you’ll just have to excuse the bad grammer.
    I’l try again
    you said
    Eusebius, who was employed by Constantine (the Emperor who established Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire) and wrote an obsequious biography of that evil man, regarded the authenticity of Revelations to be entirely spurious
    Why do you consider a 4th centuary document(written by someone employed by the jew hateing constantine) as useful and valid to add weight to your argument,and refuse to accept a well documented,selfproveing book called the bible?
    The documents are both ancient and yet you will use the one to discredit the other.does not make sence.
    I will get back to you about christian suffering it is firmly part of the Christian walk,I have not got the time just now.Thanks for replying.I hope that you start to read the bible)pray first that God through Christ Jesus will open the eyes of your understanding a good place to start is Luke or John

  328. jjacobson88 February 12, 2007 6:19 pm Reply

    Brothers and sisters in Christ,
    As citizens in the world but not of the world, we are not exempt from scrutiny by the world community we live in, whether from non-believers or believers. I frankly have seen some very good arguments that refute Mr. Hovind’s theory and in response these arguments have received ridicule and name-calling from Hovind supporters. I am alarmed at this behavior from the Christian community in trying to defend Mr. Hovind and his theory. Mockery and haughtiness will not win arguments and only serve to spread more heat than light. I don’t think this behavior gains respect from anyone and I can’t see that it respects our Lord.

  329. GORGE February 12, 2007 6:53 pm Reply

    Dear Samphire,
    You wrote
    “I know a lot of faithful Christians and none of them suffer persecution so your argument is falsified. The US is an overwhelmingly Christian nation – although doubtless you disagree with most of your fellow Christians individual beliefs – but I don’t see much persecution around the place.”

    2 TIMOTHY 3V12 says-
    “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”

    JOHN 3V19-20 says-”
    “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”

    The answer is found in the scripture givern.(2 timothy 3v12)
    A christian should not go looking to be a martor Or trouble just for the sake of it.But if a person really desires to live a Gody life in Christ Jesus theres no doubt ,be it by that persons church,or family or society they will from time to time suffer pesecution.We are the salt of the earth,that salt preserves,cleans but also STINGS.

    I do not know your christian freinds,so I could not possibly comment on them personly.I can comment on what scripture says and also on todayschurch

    It says in mark 7v6
    This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

    Jesus says,
    not everyone who call me Lord,Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven..but only they that do the will of the Father.

    Salvation only comes by the way perscribed in the bible.Going to church,praying ,doing good deeds in themselves are not enough.The sin must be delt with through the blood of Christ.
    A lot of professing Christians who are in churchs have never truely repented and been brokenhearted for their sins, and are still in darkness.Some professing Christians start of well but then through lusts or because life starts to get rough they turn back.

    We also have an enemny who plants tares as it were in the wheat,in the form of false prophets,false teachers and leaders.Who led by satan gain prestige and money within church they decive and they themselves are deceived.Lovers of money and full of pride.and many more things.
    Part of a Christian call is to tell the truth of Gods word,this can be very unpopular especally amoungst the religous.Most of the persecution meeted out on Gods People in the bible was done by the so called religious rulers.
    Many reasons for this,but afew I can think of-
    1 Hatered of God word
    2,Shows up their evil deeds
    3,Pride and self rightousness,..
    ,The fear of unrest and their loss of power.
    5,The fact Satan hates anything which will threaten His foothold on their and societies life

    Its not surpriseing then and fits in with scripture that John bunyon suffered at the hands of professing Christians.These people may fool man with act of pias but not God.
    Man looks at the outer,God looks on the heart.
    I suppose persicution started way back when Rightous abel was murdered by jealous cain and has continued right to this day.
    Hebrews chapter 11 Says about the jewish prophets
    ,”who had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment
    37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
    38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth”Nearly all of the percicution written here was carried out by people who professed to worship God.

    We are told in-1 corith 10v11
    “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition”
    Its true though that in the usa,uk,aussie and a few other so-called protestant countries,christians have enjoyed freedom from government persecution.
    In a lot ofcases this has come at the price of the forefathers(dnt know what else to call ‘em)who suffered in their lifetime ,but produced much influence on the general john wesley,j.bunyon and many more.The fact we have enjoyed a democracy for a long time too.
    Though I think you’ll find persecution and a lessoning of freedoms is in the pipeline,especialy in your neck of the woods,as they say.

    My whole purpose of this is to try and point you to the one I love,Jesus,who died for my sins that now I have enter into a relationship with God and been forgiven of my many sins.

    Samphire,dont you realise that you will someday pass through the door of death?When you die you will have to face a moral Law that is far harsher but just as true as the law of graviety.
    Have you kept Gods law,the ten commandments?have you ever told a lie?stolen?(obvesly no need to answer publicaly, just to yourself).The bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
    You need to repent before almighty God and put your faith in Christ.Then you will see the the self proving book called the bible come alive opening you eyes to its truth.

    Just for your studies,I noticed that you were talking about the stars
    .Did you know the bible says there are innumerable stars (jeremiah 33v22),that each star is differnet(1 corintians 15v41),that air has weight(job 28v25)
    that blood is the source of life and health(leviticus 17v11)
    Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains(2 samuel 22v16,Jonah2v6),
    that the Ocean contain springs(job 38v16)
    it says when dealing with disease hands should be washed under running water(leviticus 15v13)
    ,free float of earth in space(job 26v7),
    the earth is a sphere(Isaiah 40v22)
    Well I’ve jibba jabbad enough ,
    Unless you really are seeking to know God Im gonner end the dialog now,(your probably relived to know,thats ofcoarse presumeing youve read all this)
    God bless you and thanks for your veiws,I can appreciate you have put alot of thought into your belifs.

    Expecting? Get great news right aw

  330. Samphire February 13, 2007 7:37 am Reply

    Hi Gore,

    And God bless you too,


  331. The Welders Wife February 13, 2007 11:47 am Reply

    Hey Samphire,
    you’re a crack-up! [That’s American for you’re hilarious!]. In this country most people come from an assortment of nationalities [their ancestors came from a lot of different places] so that gives us a larger gene pool to work from. In my opinion a dog of mixed breed is a far better dog than a pure bred… That’s why you guys all play rugby & beat each other up…It’s ’cause ya all come form a limited gene pool on a little tiny island & there’s something missing!![The birds pecked the moths off the trees a looong time ago, & only the sinister ones managed to hide out & survive.] American Football is superior by far ’cause we don’t have a limited gene pool. Do you have any idea how small England is? England is so small, Montana [that’s a state in the USA] could swallow it up! I’m telling you, this ‘Rugby’ thing is very primitive! You guys haven’t even evolved yet into real football players!! You’re still a bunch of animals! There’s just no hope for you guys over your rugby thing! There’s just not enough time………. All we can do is shake our heads & watch as you guys duke it out among your tribes. And there’s one more thing… pure bred dogs have the most outrageous attitudes,[& the smaller they are, the more outrageous the attitude!!] but Canardlys [That’s a definition for a mixed breed dog & it means “Can-hardly-tell-what-it-is!” ] are just all around good dogs that are better built, & they’re healthier with a lot less medical problems, & a lot less ‘personality’ problems.


    Ok, in answer to your questions, we’ll start with Luke. Luke is Mary’s genealogy, & Joseph’s father-in-law is not the only father-in-law mentioned in that passage. Cainan whose son-in-law is Shelah, is also mentioned. Scripture interprets scripture, & it says the ages of these guys when their sons were born in Genesis 11:10-14, so Canaan has to be a father-in-law. Luke is writing to Gentiles & some of them were descendents of the old Hittite Kingdom [They were descendents of Cainan & they wanted to know how they fit in. See Genesis 10:15 & 23:3 & 10. [The Irish did the same thing with their genealogies…when people first wrote down theirs, they wanted to know how they fit in with the Table of Nations, so whoever wrote down the genealogies for the Irish took them right back to where their ancestors were named in the scriptures.] & the thing that is so absolutely profound is that God sends the first missionaries to the descendents of Canaan. God could have sent Paul anywhere, but He chose them. God’s love is just absolutely amazing! Half of the churches mentioned in Rev 2 & 3 were located in old Hittite territory. & if you go back to Genesis 9:25 where it says in reference to Canaan, “A servant of servants he shall be to his brothers”, it’s fulfilled in Revelation 2 & 3, because the brethern mentioned in those two chapters are still serving us through what is said about them.

    It sounds like you had an interesting childhood! And yes I do know God personally, & no, I’m not from the loony bin. Jesus says in John 14:21 “He who has My commandments & keeps them, he it is who loves Me; & he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, & I will love him, & will disclose Myself to him.” In verse 23 Jesus says, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; & My Father will love him, & We will come to him, & make Our abode with him.” Samphire, yes indeed the Highest Heavens cannot contain God, but because of that very fact, He also has the ability to become a Man & die for our sins..which he did. He did it because of His love & mercy. He created mankind with the ability to interact with Him. It’s His desire to interact with people. You have to take God at His word & put your trust in what He says.

    I’ve never been to Ohio, but I don’t think it’s a God-forsaken place as they have a great Creation Science Ministry in Ohio! I don’t know about the tea thing. Maybe there’s a ‘Star Bucks’ or a ‘City Brew’ or something similar. That time of year you’ll probably have an easier time finding ‘Iced Tea’. It can be pretty potent, so you might want to ask for a glass of ice water to go with it. I live where the mountains were formed at the end of Noah’s Flood. All around the town where I live are rocks that contain fossilized water ripple marks. There’s even huge upright slabs of them exposed along the road as one enters town from the NW entrance. Have you ever heard of the Hydroplate Theory? [] Roughly, about four to six thousand years ago the North Pole was located about where the Gobi Desert is now in Western China, & the South Pole was located about where the Chilean Rise is now in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Chile. The Equator was in a different location. Part of the old Equator would have run along where the boarder is now between Canada & the USA, favoring more the Canadian side. All across the globe the amount of land above sea level was far greater & it all connected along the seam known as the Mid Oceanic Ridge that encircles the globe. Underneath the global land mass there was a half mile deep ocean of water that encircled the globe. The land mass itself consisted of granite roughly ten miles deep. The water below the land mass was sealed off from the surface water. The surface water was contained in shallow seas & lakes. The two different areas of water didn’t intermingle. The water below the land mass was under intense pressure because of the weight of the ten miles of granite above it. The water under the land mass gradually heated up, & as it did so it expanded. It eventually got to the point where the pressure was so great that a hair line crack suddenly formed in the granite above & it encircled the globe in about 2 hours, all along where the Mid Oceanic Ridge is now. Then, because of the weight of the ten mile thick granite land mass resting above the under-continent ocean, the water went shooting up out of this crack with intense pressure. As it shot out of the crack, it continually eroded the sides of the crack. The crack continued to widen. It is estimated that the muddy water eventually shot up into the air to a height of 20 miles. In some places it came back down as frozen muddy ice hail, in mega amounts!! As it came back down, it pulled the extremely cold temperatures of outer space with it. [That’s why we find frozen critters in the far North, like Camels & Mammoths who sometimes still have unchewed food in their mouths & undigested food in their stomachs. They were frozen almost instantly!]. In other places it came back down as muddy rain. It also overflowed the crack, completely flooding the entire global slab of granite, because there were no high mountains until later. In the mean time, the crack continued to widen… When it got to a certain width, the floor of the underground lake, because of no longer having the weight of ten miles of granite above it, began to buckle upwards forming the Mid Oceanic Ridge. In turn, the part of the granite slab that was still above it, when it got to a certain point, slid down from it [like somebody on a water slide]. Because of the water that was still underneath the granite slab, the whole slab[continent] continued to travel at about 45 miles per hour until it met resistance, & then it buckled up into mountains. This explains why all the mountain chains around the globe are parallel with the Mid Oceanic Ridge. The floor of the under-continent ocean began to buckle up first in the Atlantic Ocean. This in turn caused the floor of the under-continent ocean on the opposite side of the globe to suck inwards in order to compensate for the floor on the Atlantic side pushing outward. [The opposite side
    of the globe is the area of the Western Pacific Ocean.] In turn, the granite slab[continent] above it also sank downwards.[If you view a world map that includes the satellite images of the ocean floors, you should take note that the trenches in the Western Pacific follow the out line of the Mid Oceanic Ridge in the Atlantic Ocean.] All the volcanic activity in the Western Pacific Ocean is a result of the intense friction of the shifting of the basalt floor of the under-continent ocean & the heat generated when the granite slab sunk. It’s still cooling down!

    As I said before, the North Pole was located about where the Gobi Desert is in Western China. When the Himalayan Mountains were formed, that area became the heaviest part of the earth. As a result, the earth began to roll straight towards the equator until it met its equilibrium. As it rolled, the earth ripped in a straight line, & that crack filled up with molten basalt forming the Ninety East Ridge in the Indian Ocean. [This is why tropical fossils of both plants & animals are found in both the North & South Polar Regions of the earth.]

    Because the Mid Oceanic Ridge became molten as the basalt floor rose upwards, it heated up the ocean water all over the globe. In turn the water evaporated, & came back down as mega snow fall forming massive ice sheets across the Northern Hemisphere. The snow didn’t melt in the summer time because of the cloud cover caused by the steam. Instead, the snow continued to accumulate year after year until the Mid Oceanic Ridge cooled down. Then the ice gradually melted. Another thing that happened, was that when the traveling granite slabs met resistance & buckled into mountains, all the valleys were filled to the brim with water. This occurred on a global scale, & in turn was one of the reasons why the ocean levels were 300 feet [or more] lower. [The other reasons were that the water was tied up in massive ice sheets in the North; & the mountains hadn’t reached isostatic equilibrium yet, so the ocean floors were lower.] Because the ocean water levels were lower, animals & people were then able to migrate all over the globe. this occurred after the global flood, after the animals & people left the ark & began to multiply. [And another thing: Before the Flood there were no randomly scattered rocks all over the globe. If you dug into the top soil at that time, you wouldn’t have come across rocks. It would have been pure soil.] You shouldn’t have any problems comphrehending this since you claim to be a left brained soul, but it is better if you go to Dr Walt Brown’s web site & read the online information. There’s all kinds of wonderful pictures & illustrations that explain it in great detail. If you are going to come over to the USA you ought to study up on this stuff before you get here. It would make your trip a lot more interesting! You should also check into Steve Austin’s research into Mount Saint Helens [The volcano in Washington that blew up in the early 1980’s. It left over 600 layers of asorted layers in nine & a half hours. When I was in school my teachers told me that each layer took millions of years to form, but God used Mount Saint Helens to blow that theory clean away!!]

    Cheers again!

    The Welder’s Wife

  332. jjacobson88 February 13, 2007 2:32 pm Reply

    Mr. Hovind’s theory is certainly interesting, but like the part of the Christian church that overly concentrates on end-time prophecies, the age of the earth is not a hill that I am convinced we should fight and die on. I see the Apostles, particularly Paul, concentrating on how to be ambassadors for Christ Jesus here and now. We should be learning how to engage the world that we have been born into, how to meet people where they are and help them understand their faulty conclusions through careful and educated dialog and questions.

    There are other sources you might explore for understanding the correspondence of science and faith, the existence of God through science. Science is not inherently evil; it can actually be a very good friend to the Christian who is careful to study and learn. I would invite the supporters of Mr. Hovind to study what other brothers and sisters in the Kingdom have presented, people who are well qualified in their fields of science, physics, philosophy; whose degrees are not questionable, and who have also very successfully engaged the world. You might look up the works of Hugh Ross, Michael Behe, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler, Hank Hanegraaff, J.P. Moreland, Francis Schaeffer. I’d invite you also to explore the thinking presented at Creation Research Institute (, and Reasons to Believe (

  333. Samphire February 14, 2007 6:37 am Reply

    Hi Welders Wife,

    Thanks for reply. I am not sure that I should be writing to you on Valentine’s day – my wife might get jealous.

    As for the depth of our gene pool, I live in a medium-sized traditional English village. We have a Turkish Restaurant, a Nepalese restaurant, a Chinese Restaurant, a Sikh optician, a Chinese bone cruncher and a French baker. My newspaper is delivered from a shop owned by an Indian or Pakistani gentleman. Our gardener is Italian, my neighbour is Chinese. Apart from which, unfortunately, there are also the usual suspects, Welsh, Irish and Scottish. So we are not short of genes.

    There used to be a Jewish lawyer as well until recently but he had to rush back to Israel to fulfil a prophecy. He was very happy here and didn’t want to move so he is quite upset with you fundamentalists. :-)

    I haven’t come across any Mexicans but perhaps they find the pace of life here too slow.

    As for animals, next door we have a Belgium dog, across the lane they are Welsh; ours is German but small. He is a daft as rags – point him in one direction and he runs off in the other. I call him Kent. Again, quite a rich gene pool for such a small place. I like your Canardlys, though. It is quite true that the thoroughbreds seem to spend most of their time “under the vet”. I have a theory that the rush hour round here is caused by women in their 4 x 4s taking their labradors to have their nails manicured and their displaced hips re-inserted in the appropriate sockets.

    I’m afraid that I don’t agree with you about American Football. Rugby’s gene pool spreads from Scotland in the northern hemisphere to New Zealand in the southern. From the Pacific Islands in the east to South America in the west. So how is it that only American teams ever seem to show up for the Superbowl?

    And another thing; American Football is so painfully slow. Every couple of minutes it stops for a referee(?) to pick up his poorly-secured hanky (why are those guys all so petulant?) while both teams form a circle to discuss the finer points of scary make-up, and the supporters buy another hamburger. And what are those silly girls all about?

    In rugby, the lads play 40 minutes non-stop (except to have stitches inserted in their eyeballs to stem the blood), pop off to the dressing roomfor 15 minutes at half time for a small cup of China tea and some cucumber sandwiches and to write postcards to their mothers while they have the odd limb encased in plaster and then, those who can still crawl, come out to play another non-stop 40 minutes. After the game they push their noses back in place and go off ballroom dancing.

    I’m not smiling I’m serious! :-)

    Your genealogy is all very interesting but I don’t buy it, sorry. Just like my village but not so much as mongrel America (no offence) the population of the Middle East was a melting pot of various religious traditions but all built around some variety of the Osiris/Dionysus Mystery religion. Jesus was only one in a long line of saviour mangods and the believers had the same “born again” redemptive religious experience as Christians claim for themselves today. I’m quite happy with that. As Paul makes clear, there were as many different sects of the new religion as there were churches and he had to struggle to bring them all together under a single theology. In that, he ultimately failed.

    Thanks for the info on Ohio. We received some photos from our friend over there yesterday. They show a frozen lake. What’s on Earth’s happening? The Polar ice caps are melting but Ohio is still in the ice age.

    Yes, I know of the “Hydroplate Theory” – or at least I thought I did until I read on then I realised I didn’t. In fact, it’s an hypothesis as there is no evidence whatsoever to support it just as there was no water to support the plates. I really can recommend the advantages of a good scientific education, especially to the author of the “theory”.

    You can try a little experiment for yourself. Take a fresh egg and put a pin hole in the shell very carefully. Then, equally carefully squeeze the egg as firmly but as uniformly as you can. What comes out? My theory is that nothing will come out because the shell is very strong in compression – just like a granite shell would be.

    Also, water is virtually incompressible. Drill a small theoretical hole in your theoretical granite shell and very little will come out.

    If, as you say, the water expanded under heat then it would expand by some 4.3% between freezing and boiling. Contained within a strongly tensile shell it could reach temperatures above boiling but, unfortunately for your theory, granite is extremely weak under tension and the expanding water would shatter the shell long before it got anywhere near boiling. The water would then just go – pufff – and start to seep out from below the shell. It would not come out at vast rock-eroding speeds. Indeed, by my rough calculations, given an Earth circumference of 40 x 10^9 millimetres it would take an imperceptible rise in water temperature (something of the order of 40 x 10^ -7 degrees centigrade – less than one millionth of a degree) to cause your hairline crack of one millimetre in the granite shell.

    Also, remember, in your theory the water would have to exactly fit the available volume below the granite – exact to the drop. Now that would have been a good trick.

    Please would you cite your authority relating to camels being found in the frozen north as I have not come across it.

    You say “This explains why all the mountain chains around the globe are parallel with the Mid Oceanic Ridge. ” What about the Pyrenees, The Atlas, the Alps and the Himalayas? Don’t they all pretty much run east-west?

    No, Welders Wife. I am afraid the Hydroplate “theory” is utter junk from beginning to end for reasons which it would take me a month to cut and paste. But, fear not, all is not lost; we have plate tectonics theory which is actually based upon a vast amount of observational evidence and is predictive. Indeed, the whole idea of plate tectonics came about from a very simple everyday observation – a line of mussels like a tide mark some six feet or so above sea level on the cliff faces of the western Canadian seaboard. How did they get there? Either the sea must have shrunk or the rock must have lifted. The tidemark handn’t been there some years earlier but only appeared after an earthquake. The sea level hadn’t dropped elsewhere so the rock must have been uplifted – but how? From that simple observation by a scientist (possibly a creationist but who knows?) the hypothesis was developed and it has subsequently been backed up by a huge inter-disciplinary wealth of information such that it is now a fully-fledged scientific theory – it completely explains the observations without having to invent a whole new impossible geology. And it doesn’t require the Earth to flip on its axis. We know it didn’t from astronomical and geophysical records. Also, have you ever played with a gyroscope?

    I would like to visit Mount St Helens but will not have the time. Just because there was a catastrophe which quickly deposited many layers in a short time doesn’t mean that most sedimentary strata were laid down under such conditions. Indeed, you have given evidence in your post of it; fossilized water ripples can only form when water is rippling backwards and forwards under calm and non-catastrophic conditions as on the beach at the seaside. You shouldn’t believe the creationist idiots without first reading more mainstream authors and learning some good science. Remember, the majority of sedimentary strata was not formed by mountains blowing up. And your teacher was quite right in the main.

    You’d be very welcome to come over here to England and I will have great pleasure showing you the White Cliffs of Dover for which Noah’s Flood has no explanation but real science does. Unfortunately, you won’t be allowed to bring your Canardly with you – because of the Germ Theory of Disease the authorities won’t allow him through Customs in case he has rabies.



  334. The Welders Wife February 14, 2007 7:36 pm Reply

    Hi Again Samphire!
    I have no idea what those silly girls are all about. You’ll have to ask somebody else. But you’ve got to admit that it takes a lot of talent to run around a football field with all that armor on. It takes years of training. & as for your Rugby.. Do they burp cucumbers for the last 40 minutes of their game? Do they wear kilts when they go ballroom dancing? Guys in kilts are fun to watch because they walk like ducks.

    Back to the Hydroplate Theory: The Mid-Ocean Ridge intersects in the Indian Ocean. The research at this point indicates that it continues up the Gulf of Aden & through the Red Sea & up the Boot of Italy. The Continent of Africa went right over the top of it when it was in transit. The same thing happened in the Pacific Ocean. The North American Continent went over the top of the Mid Ocean Ridge. It runs under the West Coast. If you look at a really good world map that shows the details of the ocean floor, its real obvious. You can see how the Hydroplate Theory works.
    All your other questions including the Dover Cliffs & the Camels are explained on the website Walt Brown Ph.D continually updates the website as more research comes in.
    I learned the Theory of Continental Drift & Plate Tectonics first, & afterwards learned the Hydroplate Theory. The Hydroplate Theory makes more sense & fits the scientific evidence far better.


    The Welder’s Wife

  335. CMarychurch February 14, 2007 7:43 pm Reply

    “Underneath the global land mass there was a half mile deep ocean of water that encircled the globe. The land mass itself consisted of granite roughly ten miles deep. The water below the land mass was sealed off from the surface water. […] The water below the land mass was under intense pressure because of the weight of the ten miles of granite above it.”

    Sorry, that can’t physcially work. Rock is denser than water hence won’t float on a water layer. The only way a layer of rock could be held above water would be if the rock had its own structural integrity. ie a solid bubble. The rock layer must also be globally impermeable, that is, not a single crack anywhere (quite a feat) Because the bubble is solid it therefor can not provide an compression onto the underlying water.

  336. Samphire February 15, 2007 5:19 am Reply

    Hi Welder’s Wife,

    Did the Welde remember your chocolates yesterday?

    I have replied to your last post but acidentally put it in the later blog “Update from Bunk Three”. It said:

    Hi, Welder’s Wife

    I clicked on your hydroplate link and then went straight on to ex-paratrooper Walt Brown’s meteorite theory at .

    He says that water fountains during the Flood blasted granite boulders into space where they now circle the sun in the asteroid belt.

    When I read that I went and sat in the bath and contemplated what mechanism would be necessary to accomplish this. And I got stuck – not in the bath but with the theory.

    The problem is that water is an (almost) incompressible fluid. As I understand it and please correct me if I am wrong one cannot “push” water to “push” water in front of it faster than a shock wave can propagate itself through the body of the water. Now the maximum speed for a shock wave in water is no more than 1600 metres per second. But the velocity an object has to achieve to escape the Earth’s gravity is over 11,000 metres a second – and this does not include for the extra velocity which would be needed to overcome drag caused by the atmosphere.

    So how can an incompressible substance which is travelling at only a relatively slow speed impart a much higher speed to an inelastic and brittle body such as a lump of granite?

    Far from reaching escape velocity and sailing onto the asteroid belt, using Newton’s equations of motion I calculate that a granite boulder could reach an altitude no higher than 130 kilometres (excluding any consideration for drag) before falling back to Earth – a long way short of the 80,000 kilometres it would have to travel to escape the Earth’s gravitational field and then to meander on slowly a further 200,000,000 kilometres to meet its lonely friends in the asteroid belt.

    You say that you have studied both the hydroplate theory as well as plate techtonic theory so you should be able to come up with the answer.

    Of course, it is entirely possible that the answer is that good ol’ Walt was in the habit of jumping out of aeroplanes without wearing his helmet :-)

  337. charlieb000 March 3, 2007 9:57 pm Reply

    Hi all!

    Mr Hovind does a fine job educating the evolutionists and has done a fine job researching all the wonderful stuff he teaches in his presentations (and i thank you for it all!), but i dont think it is the only cause of his pursecution. He also teachs the onset of this New World Order and the oppression it will bring and how they can accomplish it – stuff they dont want us to know.

    here is a link to a .torrent site that has a library of stuff about a facility that is designed to alter the weather and more (the first video is of a book that was meantioned in hovind’s lecture). you need a torrent program like Azureus (and there are others). you could search for the names of the videos in google video, but i have found that the videos from google are quite large compared to the torrent: (google video: 928Mb, torrent: 247Mb)
    These are documentaries and not christian content. Click on the green link (not in english) with the green arrows beside it this will bring up a “save as…” dialog requesting where you want to save the .Torrent file.

    If you only want the first file, spefify that you dont want theother stuff as the whole lot is over 4 GIGs.

    as Kent said, if it causes you to loose sleep, read the psalms.

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying,] Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from
    us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.


  338. joostaalbers April 27, 2007 9:31 am Reply

    Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ,

    I want you to know that I will pray for you.
    That God may help in this situation.
    That you may feel God’s Love.
    God Bless You!

    Your brother from The Netherlands (Aalten),
    Joost Aalbers

  339. stacysangeltouch May 17, 2007 8:17 pm Reply

    Dear Hovind Family,
    My deepest sympathy goes out to you, and my heart is burdoned in prayer for you. I would like to ask all to not only pray, but right your congressmen and Senators, and State Represenatives in objection to the injustice that has been done to the Hovinds. Everyone can make a differance if they will make a committment to get off the sidelines and get active.

    I have been righting and calling Christian radio and tv stations, news stations, etc. If enough people make a voice against this, they will be compelled to do something, eveyone call these stations and politicians, it just takes a little of your time, would you not want someone to stand with you and help you in your time of need? We may be the next one, who is going to take a stand to stop these people?

    And for the one who listed the U.S Codes, you do error not knowing the deceptive language of the Government and IRS. It says, it IMPOSES ON THE TAXABLE INCOME OF every individual who is married or single who MAKES A SINGLE RETURN JOINTLY, AND THEN STATES THE SAME FOR HEADOF HOUSEHOLDS, Married filing seperate AND INDIVIDUALS, etc.

    The key words here is TAXABLE INCOME, AND WHO MAKES A RETURN. There is no law that that says indviduals who earn income has to pay taxes, ordinary people outside of the Federal governent and employment, does not have a legal taxable income, we are considered non-taxpayers, until we put ourselves into their system by agreeing to become slaves to their system, because of fear of threats. We do not understand our legal rights, and because of this they get away with whatever they want to do, nor do they abide or uphold their own laws. Want more info? Check out the truth about the Federal Reserve.—-000-.html

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